View Full Version : Teacher pay and performance
dhyatt
03-31-2004, 11:07 AM
It's hard to know where to start commenting on the following article. It's not really surprising and serves to back up the belief that the NEA's resistance to vouchers and pay for performance really are a detriment to education...
http://...Mediocre (http://www.foxnews.com/printer_friendly_story/0,3566,115682,00.html) pay = Mediocre teachers
Thanks for posting this Don. These are definitely problems those of us with school age children have noticed. Teachers are underpaid. It's as simple as that. To attract the most qualified individuals, you need to be competitive with compensation. However, when kids are assaulting teachers and nothing is being done about it, I don't think there's enough money in Fort Knox to compensate them.
While I would NEVER have supported this when I was in school (for obvious reasons) I believe teachers should still be allowed to spank a child. I think that big paddle with the holes drilled in it hanging over the blackboard was a great behavior improvement tool, or deterent of negative behavior. The kids know the teachers can't touch em so why behave? They might get suspended? whoopie, more vacation time as far as the child/delinquent is concerned.
Heaven forbid we mark an answer wrong if the child thinks, "well that's the way I do it". Isn't teaching supposed to do just that? Teach?
Not really sure where else I'm going with this, but these couple thoughts just came to mind, and ya'll know I sure have no problem speaking my mind so..... I'll wait to see what everyone else says.
Too funny. I just checked my country on nation states and this was an issue today.
Government Acts
The Issue
The Frantz Teachers' Union, complaining of a steady increase in student disciplinary problems, wants to be able to use corporal punishment to correct misbehavior.
The Debate
"Clearly, parents aren't teaching manners at home," says Akira Rifkin, the union president. "All we want is to be able to take a paddle to their backsides when there are problems. It's not like we want to throw the kids in jail."
[Accept]
"Keep your hands off my kids!" shouts Calvin Hamilton, while protesting outside of union headquarters. "If there's a problem, it's with the teachers not having the skills to do their jobs. They should be tested for qualifications!"
[Accept]
"Corporal punishment would only treat a symptom of the bigger problem: our education system is in need of an overhaul," says Tobias Dodinas, Frantz's education minister. "We need smaller class sizes, more teachers, better buildings, and better pay. It'll cost, but it'll pay off in the long run."
[Accept]
"Why don't we just abolish the schools and home-school the kids?" asks Peggy Washington, education coordinator for the Frantz First Omnimenical Church. "That way parents can stress the values they want their kids to have and give them the attention they need."
[Accept]
Wuptdo
03-31-2004, 12:08 PM
Don,
A good read, thanks. There are so many problems in the school systems through out the country, WCPSS included. Of course, the major problem is lack of funding; we just to need to keep throwing money at the schools and the problems will go away and the world will be a better place (same logic as goes into why lawyers benefit society and I have a bridge in Brooklyn, NY to sell you).
On a more serious note, the number reason that teachers get out of teaching is lack of respect and discipline in the classroom. Adminstrators and parents are the primary cause of this. There is one simple solution that is still on the books: corporal punishment, i.e, "spare the whip, spoil the child." Especialy those "defiant with attitude" kids; as they need to be humiliated in front of their peers as well.
School violence is one of those areas that school adminstators are mum about. How many of you had to fill out and have notorized the WCPSS form "My child is not a convicted felony or been expelled?" Every heard stories about kids being assulted in school and how the school begs parents not to press charges (they have to officially report it - not good for the numbers game). And even when the parents does press charges, the DA makes it very difficult for the parents as well (wink-wink, one hand washes the other).
Believe me, when I was in school, I was a "bad" kid (Catholic School didn't want me back in 6th grade). Though I hated at the time, in reflection, it is exactly what I needed to remind me of my place in society; i.e., I was afraid of being punished by the "Man (or Woman)." To make matters worse, I got the double whammy at home as well. Due to this concern of my social well-being on the part of the schools and my father, I am able to write this today from home instead of Central Prison.
Sorry, this is one of my hot button issues.
Wuptdo B-)
P.S. I chose first option on NationStates!
P.S. I chose first option on NationStates!
So did I.
Karen
03-31-2004, 12:47 PM
I'm not sure exactly how to put in words what I'm thinking after reading that.
When I went to school I remember not exactly being scared of my teachers, but understood where my place was. They were AUTHORITY, I was not. They demanded respect, and I gave it. I don't even think I ever thought twice about it either. The kids that didn't see it this way didn't last long. And the rest of us knew it. (the stories my grandfather told of being paddled in school certainly made an impact on me as well).
I'm not THAT old, and I don't understand how respect for teachers, and for that matter ALL adults, has changed so dramatically. And I have no concept as to how a student could think it's okay to assult a teacher. What are they learning at home??? Who's teaching them respect, and right from wrong???
I agree with Wup and Don that there needs to be harsher punishments for trouble students.
Karen
Wuptdo
03-31-2004, 01:17 PM
I just sent an e-mail to the N&O's Barry Saunders about school spankings. I know he is in favor of it (previous colums). Hopefully, he will revisit the issue.
Wuptdo B-)
SteveG
03-31-2004, 01:58 PM
Discipline needs to be taught at home as much as in the school. If the students are not respecting teachers, there is only so much that the teachers alone are going to be able to do to change it.
Perhaps it is the bad parents that need to be paddled....
dhyatt
03-31-2004, 02:06 PM
Discipline needs to be taught at home as much as in the school. If the students are not respecting teachers, there is only so much that the teachers alone are going to be able to do to change it.
Perhaps it is the bad parents that need to be paddled....
You got that right! Except some of them might enjoy it...
kellyc
03-31-2004, 02:50 PM
Discipline needs to be taught at home as much as in the school. If the students are not respecting teachers, there is only so much that the teachers alone are going to be able to do to change it.
Perhaps it is the bad parents that need to be paddled....
You got that right! Except some of them might enjoy it...
Yep...them Frantz boys.....you just never know with them.
Kelly
Discipline needs to be taught at home as much as in the school. If the students are not respecting teachers, there is only so much that the teachers alone are going to be able to do to change it.
Perhaps it is the bad parents that need to be paddled....
Agreed. It is not the teachers responsibility to raise the children for the parents. However, if the child "acts up" at school, the school should have every right to discipline the child, then send them home. If the child assaults a teacher, the child should not be allowed back school.
As a parent of teenage children myself, I see more and more parents these days that either don't know where their children are, what they are up to, or just don't care. I do not blame the teachers or the school for the discipline problem kids, truly it is the parents responsibilty. But if the child knew they WERE going to be disciplined at school, in front of the whole class, they would at least be less inclined to act up at school.
Wuptdo
03-31-2004, 04:08 PM
My dad told me when he was in High School, they use to tell the kids if they didn't get good grades, or if they acted up too much, the local "Draft" board would be made aware of this. That seem to be a big motivater. I say let us bring back a limited draft (Army & Marines only). If you fail your EOG's or get expelled your senior year - automatically drafted. Think this might motivate some of these "problem" kids?
Another direction: I just heard on the Radio the Mr. McNeil went to San Francisco to receive his award; on the Counties nickle; ok, I cool with that. However, he brought eight of his funkies with him on our nickle. I am not cool on that. Where does all this boondoggle money come from at WCPSS?
Wuptdo B-)
Discipline needs to be taught at home as much as in the school. If the students are not respecting teachers, there is only so much that the teachers alone are going to be able to do to change it.
Perhaps it is the bad parents that need to be paddled....
You got that right! Except some of them might enjoy it...
Yep...them Frantz boys.....you just never know with them.
Kelly
What the hell are you talking about Kelly? :x
dhyatt
03-31-2004, 04:19 PM
Discipline needs to be taught at home as much as in the school. If the students are not respecting teachers, there is only so much that the teachers alone are going to be able to do to change it.
Perhaps it is the bad parents that need to be paddled....
You got that right! Except some of them might enjoy it...
Yep...them Frantz boys.....you just never know with them.
Kelly
What the hell are you talking about Kelly? :x
Such bad language - you're just asking to be spanked now... :wink:
kellyc
03-31-2004, 04:42 PM
When I was going to school, which wasnt that long ago....I knew very well that if I even so much as had to stand in the corner and my parents found out...I would be hurting when they got home. In addition where I went to school, many of the teacher's husbands worked in the same place as my dad, or played golf with him. I cant help but wonder if we didnt still have neighborhood schools, where teachers lived near their schools and students if there wouldnt be some kind of improvement as fas as behavior.
Kelly
Discipline needs to be taught at home as much as in the school. If the students are not respecting teachers, there is only so much that the teachers alone are going to be able to do to change it.
Perhaps it is the bad parents that need to be paddled....
You got that right! Except some of them might enjoy it...
Yep...them Frantz boys.....you just never know with them.
Kelly
What the hell are you talking about Kelly? :x
Such bad language - you're just asking to be spanked now... :wink:
You want to be the spanker? :wink:
Brent
03-31-2004, 10:12 PM
I just heard on the Radio the Mr. McNeil went to San Francisco to receive his award; on the Counties nickle; ok, I cool with that.
I'm at best questionable on that.
However, he brought eight of his funkies with him on our nickle. I am not cool on that.
I'll quote Jackie Chiles once again: "Outrageous, egregious, preposterous!" Of all the nerve! Not only are the travel expenses ridiculous, but who was minding the store?!?
Where does all this boondoggle money come from at WCPSS?
As far as I can tell, apparently from the school maintenance budget. Older schools are deteriorated to the point that they are beyond unpleasant and bordering on unsafe.
Stan "WCPSS Defender" better have one excellent story about this, or maybe Wuptdo and I will sue the school system to get our money back.
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