Telemarketing Tips......

[Wuptdo]

Got this little gem in my e-mail "in-box:"

Andy Rooney's Tips for Handling Telemarketers

Three Little Words That Work !!

(1)The three little words are: "Hold On, Please..."

Saying this, while putting down your phone and walking off (instead of hanging-up immediately) would make each telemarketing call so much more time-consuming that boiler room sales would grind to a halt.

Then when you eventually hear the phone company's "beep-beep-beep" tone, you know it's time to go back and hang up your handset, which has efficiently completed its task.

These three little words will help eliminate telephone soliciting.

(2) Do you ever get those annoying phone calls with no one on the other end?

This is a telemarketing technique where a machine makes phone calls and records the time of day when a person answers the phone.

This technique is used to determine the best time of day for a "real" sales person to call back and get someone at home. What you can do after answering, if you notice there is no one there, is to immediately start hitting your # button on the phone, 6 or 7 tims, as quickly as possible This confuses the machine that dialed the call and it kicks your number out of their system. Gosh, what a shame not to have your name in their system any longer !!!

(3) Junk Mail Help: When you get "ads" enclosed with your phone or utility bill, return these "ads" with your payment. Let the sending companies throw their own junk mail away.

When you get those "pre-approved" letters in the mail for everything from credit cards to 2nd mortgages and similar type junk, do not throw away the return envelope.

Most of these come with postage-paid return envelopes, right? It costs
them more than the regular 37 cents postage "IF" and when they receive
them back.

It costs them nothing if you throw them away! The postage was around 50 cents before the last increase and it is according to the weight. In that
case, why not get rid of some of your other junk mail and put it in these
cool little, postage-paid return envelopes.

One of Andy Rooney's (60 minutes) ideas.

Send an ad for your local chimney cleaner to American Express. Send a
pizza coupon to Citibank. If you didn't get anything else that day, then just send them their blank application back! If you want to remain anonymous, just make sure your name isn't on anything you send them.

You can even send the envelope back empty if you want to just to keep them guessing! It still costs them 37 cents. The banks and credit card companies are currently getting a lot of their own junk back in the mail, but folks, we need to OVERWHELM them Let's let them know what it's like to get lots of junk mail, and best of all they're paying for it...Twice!

Let's help keep our postal service busy since they are saying that e-mail
is cutting into their business profits, and that's why they need to increase postage costs again. You get the idea !

If enough people follow these tips, it will work ---- I have been doing
this for years, and I get very little junk mail anymore.

Works for me!

Wuptdo B-)

[Brent]

Thank heavens for caller ID!

[kellyc]

If you can obtain the first 5 notes of the phone company's disconnect tones (usually you can get them somewhere on line) and add them to the start of your answering machine, it will eliminate a lot of the computer recorded calls.

[Laurie]

Someone called here about an account I supposedly had for $462 at Finger Hut that was never paid. I don't owe them anything. Don't believe I EVER ordered anything from them. They wanted me to verify the last four digits of my SS#. I didn't give them any info.

[Brent]

If you can obtain the first 5 notes of the phone company's disconnect tones (usually you can get them somewhere on line) and add them to the start of your answering machine, it will eliminate a lot of the computer recorded calls.

Even Liddy Dole? :lol:

[kellyc]

If you can obtain the first 5 notes of the phone company's disconnect tones (usually you can get them somewhere on line) and add them to the start of your answering machine, it will eliminate a lot of the computer recorded calls.

Even Liddy Dole? :lol:

Its not perfect...Im not sure God, himself could ave stopped her calls!

[Wuptdo]

Kelly wrote:
Its not perfect...Im not sure God, himself could have stopped her calls!

Actually, from what I have been told, calls to heaven from North Carolina are all "local" calls. :-D

Wuptdo B-)

[kellyc]

They must be...as many times as my my Mom woould shout "Lord help me" when dealing with me as a child...There's NO WAY my dad would have put up with THAT many Long Distance calls....Regardless of who they were going to!

[washere]

Someone called here about an account I supposedly had for $462 at Finger Hut that was never paid. I don't owe them anything. Don't believe I EVER ordered anything from them. They wanted me to verify the last four digits of my SS#. I didn't give them any info.
Laurie-
This is serious. Finger Hut is a NOTORIOUS for this sort of thing. Have you recently applied for a mortgage (re-fi or HELOC), car loan, etc????? That might explain the shenanigans...

Of course, you probably don't actually owe them anything. You probably just have a similar name to someone who does owe them money.

To protect yourself from these %^&*, you need to send them a debt validation letter now. Head over to www.creditboards.com for more help.

Also, the FDCPA governs the practices these goons can use on you. Mind letting me know what they said and/or giving me a copy of any letter they sent you? At a $1000 per violation, it's worth the $35 to file in small claims to nail the *******s.

Finally, pull your credit now to make sure they didn't trash your credit report, and/or that there's not an identity fraud issue.

Let me know if you need help! This is serious stuff!

Oh, here's some Finger Hut specific info:
http://creditboards.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=91728&hl=finger+hut

On to violations....those %^&* have 5 days to get you a written debt collection notice. Otherwise, that's violation numero uno- $1000 to Brent and Laurie. What did they say on the phone? *If* you want to talk to them again, I'll happily coach you on how to lead them through every violation in the book. Finally, if you don't want to talk with them again, you can write and tell them to communicate in writing only. Then every time they call it's $1000 to you :-D .

I'm probably the only girl in the world who gets a skip in her step when she opens the mail box and find collection notices. :lol:

[Laurie]

They asked for me. Said I owed Finger Hut money. I said I didn't owe them or anyone else any money. They wanted me to verify the last four digits of my SS#. I told them I never give out personal information over the phone. I said good bye and hung up. Haven't heard anything further. I will check our credit report.

I thought it was someone fishing for personal information to steal my identity.

[washere]

They asked for me. Said I owed Finger Hut money. I said I didn't owe them or anyone else any money. They wanted me to verify the last four digits of my SS#. I told them I never give out personal information over the phone. I said good bye and hung up. Haven't heard anything further. I will check our credit report.

I thought it was someone fishing for personal information to steal my identity.
No, they're not "phishing" for identity info, but they're bottom-feeding scammers just the same. Too bad they didn't say anything illegal...<sniff>

[washere]

BTW, if you tell the credit bureaus that you believe you're a victim of identiy theft, they have to give you free reports (that'll save you $10 a pop). Don't let them put a fraud report on your file though, you'll probably never get it off, and you'll have a tough time applying for instant credit (ie, car dealerships, store promos, etc.).

Equifax: 1-866-238-8067
Experian: 1 800 493 1058
TransUnion: 1-800-916-8800

They change phone numbers and addresses periodically, YMMV. Also, those are the "secret" live person lines. Otherwise you go through an automated system that asks for a report number....which is difficult to do if you're calling to get a report, lol!

If you want to pull online, I recommend the triple pull product from myfico.com. Check here for current discounts:
http://creditboards.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=30893&st=425

Finally, you'll want to send a validation and cease and desist to Finger Hut. Pick one you like:
http://creditboards.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=18802

Send your letter certified mail, returned receipt requested. If they're on your credit report, once you get confirmation that your letter was received, send a letter to the credit bureaus disputing the information. There's a bunch here:
http://creditboards.com/forums/index.php?showforum=18

Yippy skippy if the bozos put it on your credit report. Now you've got them on FDCPA violations, FCRA violations (another $1000 a pop), and you can definitely catch the credit bureaus in FCRA violations. Talk about a pay day.

Now, just in case it comes up, NC covers original creditors under their debt collection laws and protections, so they can't wiggle out of their obligations that way.

Here's a great index:
http://creditboards.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=14797

[Laurie]

Have you recently applied for a mortgage (re-fi or HELOC), car loan, etc????? That might explain the shenanigans...
What would this have to do with it? I don't see the connection.

[washere]

Credit bureaus sell lists of people who have recently applied for mortgages to collection agencies. You can't close a conforming loan with open collections on your account, and the collection agencies know this...

So....

They slap a bogus collection on your report (tanking your FICO score) that you have to pay to close on your loan. You will also get a lousy loan because a collection (paid or open) tanks your credit score.

Credit bureau wins-------->Collection Agency Wins--------->Banks Win-------->You lose.

Anyhoo, they don't bother to make sure they've got the right person before they slap the info on your credit reports. If your name is anywhere close to a person who owes them money and you've just applied for a mortgage, you're a goner.

Of course, if you've opted out (disallowing the credit bureaus from selling your info), you won't be on any of the mortgage lists they sell. If you haven't done that yet, you can do so at 1800optout (I think that's right anyway..........)

opting out has the added benefit that you won't get credit card solicitations anymore (except from companies you already do business with).

[Laurie]

Fingerhut is back. I think this is going to be a problem for a while. Here is another place to see complaints about them:
fingerhut complaints (http://www.ripoffreport.com/results.asp?q1=ALL&q5=fingerhut&submit2=Search%21&q4=&q6=&q3=&q2=&q7=&searchtype=0)

Go to http://www.ripoffreport.com/ and search for Fingerhut if the direct link above doesn't work.

Thanks charchar for the good info.

[washere]

Laurie-
I'm sorry to hear that this is happening! I was really hoping for the best on this one.

Please e-mail, pm, call, whatever as you need more help. Oh, and get yourself a tape recorder. After you tell them to stop calling, every time they call is $1K to YOU! :wink:

Go get 'em.

[washere]

Laurie-
Are you getting notices from RJM or Fingerhut? If you're getting them directly from Fingerhut, the dispute process with the credit bureaus will be different, as Fingerhut would be an original creditor, not a debt collection agency.

[Laurie]

Nothing in the mail. They just keep calling. Not sure if it is Fingerhut or a collection agency. I haven't picked up the phone since the one time I talked to them. I do have a message on my answering maching to call a 1-800 number. Haven't called. I'm gathering info. The number they call from is "out of area" or "unavailable" depending on the Caller ID device.

Did you know that in NC only one party to a phone call has to know and consent to phone conversation taping?

[Cathy]

Oh, that is good to know. I have a phone recorder.

And Char, thanks for all that interesting information.

Cathy

[Laurie]

BTW - All of the places on creditboards.com that post sample letters are for members only.

[Anonymous]

Yes, NC is a one party to record state.

Oh, and I HIGHLY recommend you join creditboards. They won't do anything with your info. I'm sorry, I didn't realize you had to be a member to access the sample letters or I would have let you know. :oops:

[washere]

I should also add, that if you don't want to spend the $40 on a phone recorder, summaries/notes of phone conversations are admissible in court.

[Laurie]

I have not received anything in writing from these people yet, and certainly not within 5 days of their first phone call contact. Does this mean I can file for my first $1000 in small claims court? This is more than they claim I owe!

I implore all of you to opt out at the big 3 credit reporting bureaus. Do it now. At least do it before you apply for a mortgage, car loan or refinancing. It could happen to you.
1-888-5-OPTOUT (1-888-567-8688)
http://www.ftc.gov/privacy/protect.htm

§ 809. Validation of debts [15 USC 1692g]

(a) Within five days after the initial communication with a consumer in connection with the collection of any debt, a debt collector shall, unless the following information is contained in the initial communication or the consumer has paid the debt, send the consumer a written notice containing --

(1) the amount of the debt;

(2) the name of the creditor to whom the debt is owed;

(3) a statement that unless the consumer, within thirty days after receipt of the notice, disputes the validity of the debt, or any portion thereof, the debt will be assumed to be valid by the debt collector;

(4) a statement that if the consumer notifies the debt collector in writing within the thirty-day period that the debt, or any portion thereof, is disputed, the debt collector will obtain verification of the debt or a copy of a judgment against the consumer and a copy of such verification or judgment will be mailed to the consumer by the debt collector; and

(5) a statement that, upon the consumer's written request within the thirty-day period, the debt collector will provide the consumer with the name and address of the original creditor, if different from the current creditor.

§ 813. Civil liability [15 USC 1692k]

(a) Except as otherwise provided by this section, any debt collector who fails to comply with any provision of this title with respect to any person is liable to such person in an amount equal to the sum of --

(1) any actual damage sustained by such person as a result of such failure;

(2) (A) in the case of any action by an individual, such additional damages as the court may allow, but not exceeding $1,000; or

(B) in the case of a class action, (i) such amount for each named plaintiff as could be recovered under subparagraph (A), and (ii) such amount as the court may allow for all other class members, without regard to a minimum individual recovery, not to exceed the lesser of $500,000 or 1 per centum of the net worth of the debt collector; and

(3) in the case of any successful action to enforce the foregoing liability, the costs of the action, together with a reasonable attorney's fee as determined by the court. On a finding by the court that an action under this section was brought in bad faith and for the purpose of harassment, the court may award to the defendant attorney's fees reasonable in relation to the work expended and costs.

[Anonymous]

Hey Laurie.

Yes, you can absolutely file in small claims now for your $1000. I wouldn't recommend it *yet* though- they probably won't show up, and then you'll be stuck trying to collect your judgement.....which is interesting and highly amusing, but fairly time consuming.

BTW, you don't *just* have to file against Finger Hut....you can name EVERY single person who has called you. You can also name every single person who touched your file, but you'd have to go through discovery and interrogatories (not applicable in small claims) to do that.

Your other issue, is that if by some chance Finger hut *did* answer, they'd bump you into Federal Court. Which, again, is interesting and highly amusing, but fairly time consuming.

Finally, they will claim the "bona fide" error defense in court. You're going to have to prove that this couldn't have been a bona fide error through a paper trail. At this point, they could claim they had the procedures in place to be FDCPA compliant, but their computer "forgot" to send your notice. :roll:

Before you sue, you would need to read the entire FDCPA, FCRA, FTC opinion letters, and all of this circuits case law (not to mention any other pertinent case law you'd want to cite....)....oh, and district/local, state, and Federal rules of civil procedure (those are REAL drag).

So, I'd let them foul up a few more times, and really clean their clocks in court. You really want to make it worth your time and effort to go through the process.

Send them this letter:

I dispute your claims in their entirety and request validation pursuant to the Fair Debt Collection Practices Act. It is inconvinient for me to speak on the phone with you. Please conduct all communications in writing.

Send it certified mail, return receipt requested (CMRRR). That is iron clad, hard core PROOF in court that they got your letter and are negligent neanderthals.

Lead them through every violation you can, and then write a letter to their legal dpt demanding damages ("intent to sue").

You could also try writing them a series of "nutcase" letters- the point being to convince them that you are an overly litigious nutcase. I've had a fair amount of success with that one.

Call or e-mail when you need help; especially if you need help with the pertinent caselaw.

If you're thinking of suing the *******s, www.artofcredit.com is probably a better resource than creditboards.

Good luck! Keep fighting the good fight!

[Anonymous]

BTW Laurie, VALIDATE NOW if you haven't already.

You only have 30 days from their initial communication to communicate (preferably in writing) your demand for validation pursuant to the FDCPA for the continuing collection activity statutes/caselaw to apply here.

Another thought: did their phone messages state who they are and the debt collection "mini miranda" (this communication is to collection a debt, any information will be used for those purposes, if you dispute this debt within 30 days we will mail you written verification of the debt, etc., etc., etc.)??????

If not, you got 'em on another one.

[Laurie]

No that wasn't in their message. Only a person's name and an 800 number and a reference #. And I've saved the message. They didn't have the chance to tell me any of that the time I answered because I hung up on them after telling them I didn't owe them any $. We now have privacy director on our phone to block 'out of area' and 'unavailable' numbers.

[Laurie]

Validation letter mailed C/R/R/R. I have read on some of the complaint sites of various CAs refusing mail sent C/R/R/R. And here is another violation in my matter, the collection agency is not listed as licensed to operate in NC. That is a Class I felony in NC. I sent a complaint to the NC Dept of Insurance. That is one state and two federal violations so far.

The NC Dept of Insurance licenses CAs as well as Continuing Care Retirement Communities, Bail Bondsmen, Motor Clubs, Premium Finance Companies, Home Inspectors, Fire and Rescue Personnel and Manufactured Buildings. You can look these up online http://www.ncdoi.com .

[Laurie]

http://www.annualcreditreport.com
On September 1, 2005 everyone will be able to get one free copy of their Credit Report (minus the FICO score) from each of the big three credit reporting agencies per year. Other areas of the country can already get them free. Make sure you get the web address correct. There are already scam artists that have sites with addresses very similar to this.

If you are not having any problems and just want to keep a check on your credit report, order one in September from Experian, then four months later order one from Equifax, then four months later order one from TransUnion.

[washere]

Man Laurie, you speak the lingo now :-D .

So is the CA/JDB RJM?

If you go to the NC Secretary of State website, you can search for the name of their Registered Agent in NC. If you send that person your complaint and demand for compensation/damages, you will probably get a bit farther than just CMRRRing the general CA.

[Laurie]

Yeah, I've learned a lot since the first Fingerhut call. The CA is ARS National aka Associated Recovery Systems.

[washere]

Are they a subsidiary of Sherman Acq?

A lot of these guys (JDBs) will try to claim that they are OCs b/c they purchased the debt, and therefore aren't subject to FDCPA regulations.

[washere]

BTW, NC has a reciprocity agreement in place on the enforcement of licensing and bonding CAs.

If the OC is in another state, and the CA is also in another state, NC won't force the licensing/bonding issue so long as there aren't a significant number of outstanding complaints against them. It really stinks.

If you've got them on documented violations, report them to the NC AG, their state's AG, the BBB, the FTC, and the American Association of Collectors (I think that's right, but if it's not, it's something like that).

Also, check out this site's discussion forum for some disturbing reading:
www.collectionindustry.com