View Full Version : Who is not telling the truth?
StanN
10-04-2005, 06:47 PM
Who is stretching the truth the most?
dhyatt
10-04-2005, 07:25 PM
Who is stretching the truth the most?
Stan,
There's no doubt whatsoever that the truth about Cary and its finances is being misrepresented. Regardless of how anyone may feel about the current budget, Curran's & Harvilla's (and to a lesser extent McCuistion's) campaigns are all retreading the campaign of 2 years ago. The message doesn't resonate very well and it basically ignores changes in budget priorities that have taken place since Mayor McAlister and Councilman Joyce were elected.
I'm 100% behind making sure we have the correct budget priorities and I'm willing to accept the argument that we should proceed cautiously before acquiring any additional debt. However, the notion that things are still "wildly out of control" and that simply canning the aquatics center will solve all the problems is the shallowest of messages. Regardless of how the public feels about Mr. Curran, I hope their votes are based on more than just campaign mailers and soundbites.
StanN
10-04-2005, 07:42 PM
DonH,
I agree. Honest disagreements about priorities is one thing. Misrepresentation of the facts is another. Deliberately misrepresenting the facts should be of concern to all voters.
stan
Brent
10-04-2005, 10:07 PM
Hear, hear, Don & Stan!
What a pity that one can cast only one vote in this poll. It's a very close race to be the dubious "winner".
StanN
10-05-2005, 12:33 PM
I think it would be helpful if folks gave examples, as did Don, rather than simply voting against a candidate.
stan
StanN
10-05-2005, 05:43 PM
Just heard Curran's radio commercial on 680. Its a repeat of his literature. I wanted to puke. 670% increase in debt. There are lies, dammed lies and Curran's exaggerations. Only a fool would be influenced by this alarmist cr@p. But Curran's campaign is based on the principal that there are a lot of fools out there.
stan
Brent
10-06-2005, 12:26 AM
In addition to the disingenuous (that's the most polite term I can think of) misrepresentations of the financial situations by more than one candidate, already cited by Don H. & Stan, I'll add:
- the statements about "I will give you a pool for free, you don't need to spend your money on it, trust me" from Mr. Curran.
- the statement from Jack Smith that they've never condemned land for greenways
- the statement from Mrs. Robinson (see separate thread) that she "conceived" the idea to "loan" money to NCDOT to accelerate Hwy 55 widening
Bull, bull, bull.
Just heard Curran's radio commercial on 680. Its a repeat of his literature. I wanted to puke. 670% increase in debt. There are lies, dammed lies and Curran's exaggerations. Only a fool would be influenced by this alarmist cr@p. But Curran's campaign is based on the principal that there are a lot of fools out there.
stan
Stan,
Just for discussion purposes, what exactly did Curran say that was a lie? Exagerations or lack of context I won't argue the least, but what mailer flat out "lied" to me?
dhyatt
10-06-2005, 11:26 AM
Just to provide a little context on this, consider the following... (imagine a smooth radio voice)
"...Cary once had a plan to to provide safe drinking water for our children. However, since Mike Joyce was elected, funding for Cary's Water Treatment Plants has fallen by 99%. Does Mr. Joyce care about Cary's future? Does he care whether or not we have safe drinking water for our children and grandchildren?"
In 2003, Cary spent roughly $30M to complete the expansion of the West Cary Water Treatment plant. Since it's now paid for, funding for that work is essentially nil. The above ficticious ad is simply a reminder that statistics in a vacuum can be very misleading. It's unfortunate how often campaigns can get away with that kind of nonsense, simply because the electorate lets them.
I hear ya Don - and don't disagree at all. I am just trying to distinguish between what is a lie, and what is a gross exageration.
Saying someone is misrepresenting the facts, exagerating, or providing data out of context is one thing, calling them a "liar" is another.
dhyatt
10-06-2005, 01:07 PM
I hear ya Don - and don't disagree at all. I am just trying to distinguish between what is a lie, and what is a gross exageration.
Saying someone is misrepresenting the facts, exagerating, or providing data out of context is one thing, calling them a "liar" is another.
agreed
StanN
10-06-2005, 02:57 PM
Don and Don,
Our standard as a society for the "truth" has gone way down. We hear so much misrepresentation from politicians and commercials that we have lost sight of what constitutes truth.
Technically Mr. Curran's comments are exaggerations or misrepresentations rather than outright lies. But when facts are portrayed with the deliberate intent of deceiving the public they are equivalent to lies in my book.
Blaming Ms. Robinson for the cut backs in P&R is a perfect example. Her overall record in the area of P&R has been supportive...too supportive in my book. But to blame her for cut backs mainly called for by the Mayor (and warranted IMO) is absolutely crazy.
Ditto for the record of most on the CTC in failing to support initiatives in economic policy...if he had simply said she had been ineffective in forging an alliance to support the measures she introduced, I could have bought that. But note the same could be said of Mr. Joyce and his efforts to cut the budget.
Don F, how would you like a brochure attacking MJ for failing to cut the budget? Technically its true..but it would be equally misleading and outrageous as Mr. Currans remarks about Ms. Robinson.
Or what would be your reaction if MJ was blamed for all that debt because he voted for Baseball USA...its true as did the Mayor and Ms Robinson. When does an attempt to mislead become a lie. IMHO the answer is "I know one when I see one."
Or all Currans's remarks about schools. Why didn't he tell us about his position about Iraq or the space effort or the appointments to the supreme court.
The pattern is consistent and clear. Misrepresent the facts; set-up false premises; tell people what you think they want to hear whether it is relevant to the campaign or not; prey on people's ignorance about how local government works; prey on peoples fears and concerns about the economy; use percentages and numbers to paint a misleading picture.
Would you accept someone who did those things as a leader of your church, a boyscout troop or as a key member of your business...no less a member of the CTC and likely someone being groomed as a future Mayor?
Use whatever words you like to define him....LIAR is close enough for me.
stan
oh, ok. Now I get it. Kinda like when someone uses Paul Krugman editorials to make their point? Now I know what a liar is. Thanks stan!
http://carypolitics.org/images/pot_kettle.gif
d4vendel
10-06-2005, 09:59 PM
Priceless! :-D
- David F.
StanN
10-06-2005, 10:20 PM
Don,
One big difference between the pot and the kettle...I ain't running for office.
stan
StanN
10-07-2005, 09:24 AM
Mike Curran's idol?
http://www.humanities.uci.edu/users/vfolkenflik/VRF%20Sources/Pinoccio%20liar.jpg
Cathy
10-07-2005, 01:49 PM
The Town of Cary has had a policy (Statement 70) that includes using eminent domain to aquire easements for greenways since 1989.
On Feb 2, 2001, The Operations Committee, chaired by Jack Smith, unaimously approved deletion of Policy Statement 70 for obtaining easements and adopting the the new Policy 118 which also includes using eminent domain to aquire easements for greenways:
http://www.townofcary.org/agenda/councilmin01/cm020801c.htm
Can Jack honestly say he was unaware of this policy? If he was, could this be considered a deriliction of his duty as your representative to make informed choices in the best interests of his constituents?
Is it truly an "oversight" on his part to claim publicly (see the candidate forums) that he has never voted to use condemnation for the purpose of greenways? Or is it "stretching the truth"?
In the case of the Speight Branch Greenway, aquiring easements for sewer line extentions seems to be secondary to the priority goal of obtaining easements for completing the greenway.
www.townofcary.org/agenda/councilmin03/cm100903b3.htm
Staff has been working with property owners to secure easements necessary for the installation of a greenway and 24” sewer main along Speight Branch. The greenway will provide a necessary link in the system that will eventually link Kids Together Park and Hemlock Bluffs Park . The sewer line will provide needed additional capacity for the Speight Branch area in addition to existing and buildout development in the Crossroads/Centrum areas. This project spans the area along Speight Branch between Tryon Road and Cary Parkway and involves five property owners.
ACTION: Mayor Pro Tem Smith made a motion to approve the consent agenda with the exception of item 1.c. Mr. Weinbrecht provided the second, and council granted unanimous approval.
www.townofcary.org/agenda/councilmin03/cm100903b3.htm
ACTION: Mayor Pro Tem Smith made a motion to approve the consent agenda with the exception of item 1.c. Mr. Weinbrecht provided the second, and council granted unanimous approval.
j. Condemnation Proceedings for Speight Branch Greenway & Interceptor Project (EN04-033)
Committee unanimously recommended adopting a Resolution of Condemnation for the Speight Branch Greenway & Interceptor Project.
Staff has been working with property owners to secure easements necessary for the installation of a greenway and 24” sewer main along Speight Branch. The greenway will provide a necessary link in the system that will eventually link Kids Together Park and Hemlock Bluffs Park . The sewer line will provide needed additional capacity for the Speight Branch area in addition to existing and buildout development in the Crossroads/Centrum areas.
This project spans the area along Speight Branch between Tryon Road and Cary Parkway and involves five property owners in addition to land owned by the Town. We have been working with all property owners and anticipate successful negotiations with the remaining four property owners within the next two weeks. As a precautionary measure, staff requests that the Town Council adopt condemnation resolutions to ensure that the project stays on schedule.
www.townofcary.org/agenda/councilmin05/cm011305b.htm
ACTION: Mr. Roseland made a motion to approve the consent agenda with the exception of item 5.a.(12), Maynard Pond. Mrs. Robison provided the second.
Mr. Joyce noted that he opposed item I.d. (condemnation resolution for 1/64), but he will support the consent agenda.
ACTION: Vote was called for on the motion to approve, and council granted unanimous approval.
d. Consideration of adoption of condemnation resolutions for the US 1/64 Pedestrian Crossing.
Staff has been working with the NCDOT on the design of a pedestrian crossing that will span US Highway 1/64 thereby providing a link in the Hinshaw Greenway Trail connecting McDonald Woods Park and Kids Together Park . The designs for the bridge are complete and staff continues to work to obtain the necessary easements from two property owners owning land adjacent to one of the bridge supports.
While one or both easements may be signed before condemnation is complete, it is necessary to begin condemnation procedures for these easements in order to meet the Municipal Agreement deadline set with DOT. The property owners are as follows:
Wellington Ridge Homeowners Association: PIN # 076208986463 & # 076208986244
Summerwinds Inc.: PIN # 076208972830
vBulletin® v3.7.3, Copyright ©2000-2009, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.