Catch Basin; informal budget stuff

[Wuptdo]

We all see or hear things. I thought this might be a good place other types of information or data as it relates to Cary's budget. See something odd in the budget or need to ask the group a question. This could be the place.

For instance, today in the N&O (fair & balanced), it quoted Jeff Ulma saying the cost to operate the SAS soccer park would be about $500K per year. They are currently hammering out a deal with Wake Co. and Cary to share expensives for the first 3 years then Cary get the whole package. Somehow Hotel Tax money was involved as well as the State of NC.

Mike B-)

[Wuptdo]

In the early 90's, the only type of hotels in Cary were the "No-tell" type Motels and a few roadside. Not a big Wup. The hotel tax was added in the early 90's when the hotels were either around RDU or downtown Raleigh. At the time, taxing people to come Raleigh to help pay for the convention center was the goal. However, voters turn down the project and the money grew and grew. Now you know, that politicains hate seeing good money go to waste. So while the convention center people waited to get its own people elected, the money was spent downtown on various project, with the out towns getting a bone or two.

However, 12 years later, it is a different ball game. While Raleigh's downtown continued to rot away, the out towns grew and prospered. Without checking, I believe there are actually more hotel rooms outside of Raleigh than in. But the Puppet Meeker along with County Commish's still want most of the money spent of "revitizing" downtown Raleigh. I don't it is fair that a good chuck of money is earned outside of Raleigh, should go to Raleigh. I don't have a problem with some of it being shared for Wake County use, but the bulk of the revenue should stay in the town in which it is earned. In the early 90's, no one thought that Wake County would grow the way that it did. I have seen stories where Apex, F-V, and Wake Forrest want to keep their money also. Let the people of Raleigh pay for their own convention center -- it will never benefit me as a citizen of Cary.

Therefore, I propsed that the Hotel Tax agreement either be repeal, or re-written in such as way, that the towns get to keep the bulk of the revenues earned.

Mike B-)

[johnb]

How many of these Regency Park, CASL Soccer Stadium, Cary Swim Club Aquatics Palaces, and NY Tennis Center boondoggles do we the people have to be saddled with?

Is there ANY half million per year expenditure city staff won't recommend to that out of control city council we have?

We're bleeding to death from a multiplicity of paper cuts.

I thought Ernie was supposed to be fiscally conservative. What happened? Like Kelly, I too may be rethinking my vote. JULIEFORCARY! is fiscally irresponsible and has no possible way to relate to people who own, run or work businesses in the private sector and she demonstrated no concern for the debt issues that decided the election. That can't be hidden, it's out in the open, and we the people knew what we would have gotten. Screwed. Seems like Ernie knew what to say to get elected but we're getting the same fiscal irresponsibility we'd have gotten from JULIEFORCARY! Must be a shock to her. Mouth the platitudes to win the election but spend the cash like a drunken sailor in a house of ill repute.

I'm not sure I see how things would be different with her in the Mayors chair instead of him. We're getting ripped off for that whole "public arts" spending spree Ernie is engineering. We're getting ripped off for that aquatics palace cash grab on behalf of the Cary Swim Club. We're getting ripped off with subsidy after subsidy for anyone willing to buy off a city employee in order to influence the city council. This is insanity.

[MattD]

The purpose of our group (from the draft mission statement) is: “This volunteer citizen group will examine the Town budget (2004/2005) in an objective manner…”

I remind the group that if we are to follow our intention of being objective then it is inappropriate for anyone to be bashing any council members – especially by name – on this forum. If we want Town Council and Staff to take our group seriously, then it behooves us to save the rhetoric for other forums on this site.

From our first meeting:
– Mike Joyce: “This is not about politics (we have a mixed group of parties and ideologies present)” and our group is “…intended to help elected officials represent the people better.”
- From Mayor McAlister: “Not about politics/parties, but about money”

Even though this is a closed/private chat room, why risk having negative words getting out? Alienating Town Council/Staff will get us nowhere. In fact, it could render our hard work worthless if we come across as a partisan or single issues group.

In my opinion, it is out of place on this forum to name names without presenting a solution. If you do not like a Councilmember’s stance on budget issue, fine, then please list the reasons why you object.

[Wuptdo]

Most of the things that JohnB mention were carried over from the past administration. Much like President being blamed for Clinton's recession. I don't think the Mayor has the power to make these items just disappear. When the budget is done for 2004-2005, that is when we will know where our elected officials stand on these various issues; i.e., where the rubber meets the road.

Just my 2 cents.

Mike B-)

Disticha de moribus ad filium - Patience is the greatest of all virtures. Dionysius

[Brent]

I agree with Matthew. Let's try to stick to data on this forum. There are plenty of other fora for personalizing any criticisms that we may have.

[Karen]

I agree with Matthew. Let's try to stick to data on this forum. There are plenty of other fora for personalizing any criticisms that we may have.

Agreed as well.

Karen

[Don]

ditto

[Cathy]

Most of the things that JohnB mention were carried over from the past administration. Much like President being blamed for Clinton's recession. I don't think the Mayor has the power to make these items just disappear. When the budget is done for 2004-2005, that is when we will know where our elected officials stand on these various issues; i.e., where the rubber meets the road.

Just my 2 cents.

Mike B-)

Disticha de moribus ad filium - Patience is the greatest of all virtures. Dionysius

Well spoken, Mike!
It is far to early to be criticizing the newly elected Council members for things that the previous Council got the Town of Cary into. If more citizens voiced stronger support for selling off these venues, then those that want to do that on the Council will have "the voice of the people" to make it happen! There is so much that needs fixing in the expenditure dept., (and there are enough of the old Council still in place) that change won't come quickly.

Cathy

[Don]

I agree with Matthew. Let's try to stick to data on this forum. There are plenty of other fora for personalizing any criticisms that we may have.

C'mon Brent, who is critical on these forums? Geez, the accusations. :wink:

[Brent]

That's it, Frantz, I've had it with your criticisms and accusations. I think I'll start criticizing and accusing you. :lol: :wink: :lol:

[Wuptdo]

What government agency can strikes fear in all, can make the Governor shake in his boots, and even by-pass and over rule Federal Judges. If you quessed the IRS, your wrong! If yout thought the Department of Homeland Security, your still wrong! If you thought the Army Corps of Engineers, you are correct (give the person(pc) a cigar)!

Last night when we were talking about purchasing open space, especially around Jordan Lake, the Corps of Engineers came to mind. The Corps for the most part controls Jorden Lake, and is responsible for maintaining "wetlands" all over America. Has anyone thought about asking the Corps to "involuntary condem" additional land around Jorden Lake to help perseve it as a water source? At last count, N.C. only gets .93 on the dollar for Federal spending. Wouldn't it be nice to have the Feds pick up the tab on this? David Price is running for congress again and can anyone think of one thing he has done for this district? It is time for David to bring home the bacon! Thoughts & Comments.

Mike B-)

[johnb]

What the hell are you talking about? The feds pick up the tab?

Come on wup, you know you mean to suggest that you'd like a thief other than the ones that live in Cary spend the cash they stole from you buying more land around Lake Jordan.

[Wuptdo]

JohnB,

If the Feds can spend 16 Billion Dollars on the "Big Dig" in Boston, why not a few million more around Jordon Lake. As far as I'm concerned, the Feds need to give back a little more down this way. However, not that Navy training field on the coast. I still don't understand why the Navy is not using the Facility on the Pax River in Maryland (same distance too). Yes, if would be nice if Mr. Price did give back to the district that has kept him otherwise employed.

Mike B-)

[Cathy]

Lord Almightly, Mike! I hope that you are kidding!
I would never wish for the Army Corp of Engineers to take any more land from private landowners than they already have.
The United Nations and the Sustainable Development crowd are doing more than enough to try to control the water resources.
Promoting this kind of Federal control of land and water plays right into those like Marky boy who think that private property is just an illusion and that everything belongs to "The State".

Cathy

[Wuptdo]

Cathy,

Hate to say it, but I was not kidding. What is the difference if the town buys the land or the Feds? Believe it or not, I actually trust the Feds, i.e. the Corps to do a better job of being a stewart of the land, than the town, county or state. If you can think of a better solution to protect fresh water resources, I am open minded. You more than anybody else in the group are aware of the big picture facing this country/planet. Over population, fresh water, and depleting resources -- yes, I worry about my children's future and what we leave behind.

Mike B-)

[Wuptdo]

I would like to extend a special thanks to council members Miss Julie and Miss Jennifer for their participation the other night. Their input diffently helped me fill some of my gaps of knowledge (or lack thereof). Many Thanks!

Mike B-)

[Wuptdo]

For group input & thought.

Based on what Miss Julie & Miss Jennifer were asking for priorities from the group, I was wondering if we are not going down the "wrong" road. Are we doing too much work, i.e., diving into the budget and trying to figure what is what and where the money is being spent?
(I am thinking out loud and sharing with the group)

Due to time constraints, what can we really hope to accomplish for the next fiscal year? I like the idea of the "Top 10 List" for the council to use a recommended guide.

However, after the meeting the other night, I was thinking that maybe we would be more useful as a focus group. What I mean as a focus group, is that Council will use us to bounce ideas or sugggestions they may have IRT the budget. For instance, the council has 5 or 6 suggestions for the CIP, but as part of process, they float those suggestions through us and we either make recommendations or arrange priorities (as a citizens advisory group).

Thoughts and Comments - WANTED!

Mike B-)

[Cathy]

I don't know Mike....
Although it was interesting to have Jennifer & Julie be a part of the meeting and answer questions from their perspective, and it was certainly helping to clarify the "priority list" when Jennifer got up to go over things, I think that it is important for the group to stay a little more detached about the budget than a focus group would be.
The difficulty for us as a group comes with the fact that we have volunteered to do the work that an accountant or auditor is trained to do. We don't all have that kind of training or experience. I'm sure that is frustrating for many of the group. But I think that we can handle the task of creating a list of things that we feel are not necessarily essential services and are things that citizens can forego or delay until the budget is balanced.

Cathy

[Brent]

Right. I think we should try to fulfill our current mission statement, which is to provide some citizen input on general budget priorities. There is a time crunch for doing that, as the budget is being considered over the next few weeks.

Once the FY '05 budget is in place, we could re-assess what we want to do and how we want to do it, I think.

[Wuptdo]

Ok, so I am not the only one.

Having been roasted over the coals in several "internal" audits, I learned from my mistakes. However, there is no learning curve here or willing auditors to show you the way to internally blessfull balance sheet. So far, there just seems to be just as much important information outside of the budget, as inside (like a twinkee :wink: ).

Thanks,

Mike B-)

[Cathy]

Ok, so I am not the only one.

Having been roasted over the coals in several "internal" audits, I learned from my mistakes. However, there is no learning curve here or willing auditors to show you the way to internally blessfull balance sheet. So far, there just seems to be just as much important information outside of the budget, as inside (like a twinkee :wink: ).

Thanks,

Mike B-)

No...You ain't alone in your frustration! And you certainly nailed an important problem for us, in that there are some aspects of this budget that are not clearly contained in the given documents. We end up with questions that need to be answered by someone "in the know".
MJ???..anybody?? SMASH that Twinkie!!!

[Wuptdo]

Here is a good question to ask staff or a Council member.

When was the last outside audit done on the town budget and finances (and practices')?

Mike B-)

[Wuptdo]

At about 8:14 am, there were 16 "guest" and 1 member viewing the site.

Who are all these people?

Mike B-)

[Wuptdo]

After hitting another big pothole on Reedy Creek Road, this thought came to mind:

How many millions of dollars can the TOC get from the NY Bond people for an 1 cent tax increase?

(For instance, that for raising the property rate one cent would equal 3.2 million bond dollars (at current market rate))

My understanding is that if you vote for a bond issue, you understand that your taxes must go up to pay for the bond.

Mike B-)

[Brent]

So, I obtained my copy of the FY '05 budget. I have not completed a thorough review yet, but here are a few items that caught my eye. Comments, anyone?

- In addition to about $80K grants to non-profits, we also provide about $100K of grants to cultural arts organizations (see details in another thread in this forum). I am sure that everyone has their own opinion on what is a "worthy cause", but one thought is to reduce these grants, if we don't want to eliminate them.

- The amount we pay for "contracted services" is staggering. I have not yet calculated the totals, but it would appear to run into the millions. It would be nice to have a better understanding of what these "contracted services" are and whether or not our paid staff could perform some of them.

- A non-trivial amount of money appears to be spent on travel. I have not totalled these amounts, either, and the line item has "employment, training and travel" all lumped together, so once again, a better understanding of these expenditures would be helpful, but there's a pretty good chunk of change in this bucket

- In a related item, culling through the budget line items, one can begin to discern a hint of one of our group's previous questions; i.e., "How much do we spend on Council retreats?" There are line items for various council expenses, some of which seem like they might be related to retreats and other "perks" like entertainment and food. But again, it's hard to tell.

- We also spend a non-trivial amount on memberships and association dues, presumably for staff members. I assume that these memberships are valuable, but maybe they could be a shared cost?

- In the CIB, there are many things I would like to understand better. However, two items stood out for me: The first is $50K for a dog park (yes, Kelly, I know you support this, but it seems like a "nice to have" in a tight budget year. $50K would pay for a School Resource Officer, I'll bet. And if all the dog park club members kicked in $20 apiece, this amount could at least be reduced).

- The second CIB item was a quarter million dollars for a "water squirter park". That is, a bunch of human-actuated water squirting devices to be installed in a park. Seems like a misplaced budget priority to me.

- Oh, and is this the year to give large pay raises to senior staff? They might be well-deserved, but are they appropriate now?