Brent
05-27-2004, 12:16 PM
My apologies for the tardiness of these, folks. I was gone from last Friday until Tuesday night. Please review for correctness/completeness. I will send to Council in a couple days, as usual.
I didn't bother to re-format any of this; it isn't pretty but I think you can get the drift. In the originaly document, the 'è' that you see below really is an arrow, to show what the group's conclusion was.
----------------
Citizen Budget Review (“The People’s Money”)
Fifth Meeting 05/20/2004
Participants:
(* indicates attendance at this meeting)
Robin Joyce (helped facilitate first meeting only)
Adam Arnold (covering some meetings for the Cary News)
* Mike Dodson
* Matthew Danielson
* Brent Miller
John Finn
Katherine Haney
Daryl Baker
Josh Mills
Ray Czarnecki
Bynum Walter
Matt Walter
Ron Woodard
Ken Elowitz
Darryl Black
Tom McCuiston
Cathy Heath
Don Hyatt
* Don Frantz
* Kelly Commiskey
Lynne Loots
Betty Pickett
June Schmidt
Anita Porter
* Cas Nowak
* Karen Griffin
Spencer Combos
Mike Heath
Council members present this meeting:
None
New Participants since previous session:
None this time
Notes Since Last Meeting:
· Don Hyatt has set up a forum and e-mail list on the carypolitics.org Web site for use by the group for general discussion (thanks, Don!). We need to make more effective use of this resource.
· We submitted an interim report to Cary Town Council so that they would have our findings, even though incomplete, in time for their first capital budget work session.
Agenda:
· Determine high/low priorities for various areas of the capital budget (similar to our exercise at the previous meetings). We have the work done by the “Mike/Cathy/Karen” subcommittee to assess, to wit:
Capital Improvements Page
1) Transportation CIP - Comment, coordinate better long term planning on road projects and improvement. For instance, several years ago Weston Parkway was repaved. About a year later, either water or gas lines were run along Weston Parkway. Now Weston Parkway is once again in need of re-paving.
è Good idea to try to have better coordination of this planning
2) Fire CIP - Did they buy the "Education Trailer? ($80,000)" Was it really necessary?
è Mixed opinions. Noted that (1) other fire education opportunities (visit the station) exist; and (2) no one in this group has ever seen this trailer (did we buy it? If so, are we getting enough use out of it)?
3) Parks & Rec CIP - Item P, US 1/64 Pedestrian Crossing (bridge); Status? Why? Road Improvement?
è Originally was budgeted for $500,000; went to $1.2M; at last Council meeting, it was noted that it had gone to $1.8M. It doesn’t seem necessary. Staff had previously advised one committee member that pedestrian bridges (and tunnels) normally are avoided (people just don’t use them). What is the projected pedestrian traffic for this? This seems to the committee like an unnecessary expenditure of a lot of money. Very low priority.
Item H, Open Space Acquisition; How much was actually spent in 2003?
è One opinion that we might be willing to cut this by around 15% for FY ’05 (on the principle that all areas ought to share some of the budget cuts). In general, though support for open space acquisition from the utility fund remains very high (affirmed from last session).
Item O, Tryon Road Crossing; Status? What is this? A bridge? A Tunnel? Why here? Road Improvement?
è We don’t know what this is (but we would like to)
4) General Government CIP -
Item A, Alternative Fueling Feasibility Study/Station; Why? Many national studies already done?
è Was this really necessary? General consensus among the group: We hire too many consultants and spend too much money on independent consultants. Do we have someone who is a grant writer on Staff? Don’t we have sufficient expertise for many of these studies on Staff and in the community? How much have we/will we spend on consultants?
Item C, Park Street Culvert Replacement; Status & Why? Road Improvement?
è Was this for stormwater remediation?
Item D, TCAP - Streetscape Improvements? Status & Why? Where is the money in the budget for overall construction of the Town Center?
è All the money seems to be going for consultants and plans, not tangible results. Are we planning the streetscape in conjunction with the transportation plan (that is, are we going to put in sidewalks and lights and plants and then tear it back up to put in a roundabout?) In any case, are we really going to invest in downtown? And is streetscape the right place to start? Can we get some of this from the developers when the areas are developed? Some feeling in the group that streetscape isn’t the right place to start – things like development/redevelopment incentives may be more important.
Item E, Temporary Disposal/Open Space Land; Status & Why?
è This is the biosolids disposal.
Item F, Yard Waste/Transfer/Recycling Facility; Status? Is this new facility or upgrades to existing facility?
è This is storm debris disposal. Is this more economical than, say, having a regional facility?
5) Utility Fund Expenses by Function:
Under Other/Contingency; In FY2002, $11,097,034 (Actual), in FY2003 $13,479,355 (actual), in FY2004, $873,961 (budget). There was a 93.5% difference from FY2003 and FY2004. Special note: Includes $11.2 million for open space projects in FY2002, $13.5 million for annexation projects in FY2003, and $1 million for open space projects in FY2004.
Questions? Why were not these large budget items but as separate line items. Why were these items under Utility fund, especially open space? Where is the million dollars for Open Space in FY2004? What exactly is "General Fund Reimbursement" and how is it different from "Debt Service?"
è What are the annexation projects? Was this to run water/sewer to annexed areas? General fund reimbursement is for things like staff salaries associated with utilities, but that doesn’t account for everything.
6) Graphs on overall Debt: Do these graphs, especially projected debt, reflect $130 million road bond and $30 million Park & Rec Bond. What is the project price of the new Waste Water Treatment Facility? Is there a graph or chart that factors in these items. Just because a bond was passed, does it mean we have to spend it? How much more debt can Cary maintain and still keep its AAA bond rating (without raising taxes)?
è Need more detail here.
7) We concluded it would be nice to be able to see what the "actuals" for FY2004 are currently at. that way, if some big expenses that haven't been purchased yet, they can either be canceled or moved into the next fiscal year. We also thought it would be nice to see where large budget
items or trust fund money that was moved around, and where it went.
1) Based on data we found in the budget book, we recommend that the City budget for a "special" census in FY05-06. The last special census generated over 4 millions dollars in additional revenue.
è This could be very well worth the investment, but probably FY ’06 or later (given potential annexation, increasing growth rates, etc.)
2) Water Conservation - we think the town should still make an effort to make water conservation a priority, but they could loosen some of the current restrictions.
è Little support for loosening conservation, other than maybe a little bit for businesses, and especially not for the purpose of generating more utility revenue. Consensus that we should re-evaluate our current tier structure (commercial should bear more of the burden/upcoming increase…but not to the point where operating expenses for businesses are non-competitive)
3) Continue to look at ways the TOC could privatize any of its services; (i.e., if the service is available in the phone book.....)
è What are candidate services for privatization (and what level of support is there for this in the group)?
Trash pickup (not much support for privatizing this…but we might want to look at levels of service and fees, which currently are heavily subsidized).
Town vehicle maintenance (could this be done on a bid basis by private companies? Could just some of the town’s maintenance be bid to private business? Concern that this could be difficult/complex)
Landscape maintenance (some support for this)
Technology/computers (concerns with security/privacy if we did this)
Billing/collections/accounts payable & receivable (some support for this…do we do any of this?)
Sell the time on Cary’s TV channel (to public groups)? Much support in the group for this.
When we build new town facilities (arts centers, parks, etc.), consider including revenue-generating options (things that can be rented by groups for weddings, etc.). Consider policy changes to enhance revenue generation (e.g., allow alcohol for certain events)
OK, this sounds a little off the wall, but it has been shown to work in other municipalities: “The official soda/snack/etc. of Cary” – and encourage local businesses.
Consider selling naming rights to Cary venues.
Consider advertising on CTran.
4) Keep any revenue earned in the department in which it was earned; i.e., look very closely on money that is transferred from one department to pay for something in another department.
è Agreed – this is one of our already-established general principles from a previous meeting.
5) Recommend that the town commence an external audit. We hope that this audit might find some funds that might be available to use for budget shortfalls and ensure that the people's money is properly accounted for.
è What audits are done on the town’s finances?
Requests for Information:
Brent will consolidate these on behalf of the group and send to appropriate staff members to ask for more data:
· What is the “Tryon Road crossing” (see item above)?
· Do we have anyone who is a grant writer on Staff?
· How much did we spend on consultants in FY ’04? How much is budgeted in FY ’05?
· What explains the other/contingency line item and the general fund transfers in the Utility fund (would like more details)?
· Do these graphs, especially projected debt, reflect $130 million road bond and $30 million Park & Rec Bond. What is the project price of the new Waste Water Treatment Facility? Is there a graph or chart that factors in these items. Just because a bond was passed, does it mean we have to spend it? How much more debt can Cary maintain and still keep its AAA bond rating (without raising taxes)?
· When can we get the 2004 actuals?
· When can we get the 2005 budget?
· Have we looked at doing a special census in FY ’05 or FY ’06?
· How frequently are the Town finances audited?
· How much money has been spent on Council/Staff retreats in FY ’04 and what’s budgeted for FY ’05?
· How much money is spent on “perks” for Staff/council (things like dinner at Ruth’s Chris, reserved tickets at Regency Amphitheater, etc.)
Questions/General Observations:
· See above
Discussion
· See above
Priorities:
· See above
· One new one: we would very much like to cut the amount of money spent on council retreats.
Ideas Going Forward:
From previous meetings:
By approximately May 5[now past], we should have a general report on group consensus on “general principles” for the capital budget (as input to the Council Budget work session for the capital budget on May 12) and similar input for the operating budget by approximately May 18, for the Council Budget work session for the operating budget on May 25.
We can follow this up with specific recommendations for the FY ’05 budget once it is available
Growth management needs to be a future discussion topic
Next Steps:
· Request any follow-up information from Staff (none new)
· Schedule for next meetings
o Tuesday, May 25, 6:30 p.m.: Topic: TBD (suggestions: growth management, cost of annexation). Location Bond Park Community Center, Dogwood Room Note: Brent won’t be there; need a volunteer to take notes.
o Thursday, June 3, 6:30 p.m.: Topic: TBD (probably needs to include discussion of presenting our final report). Location Herb Young Community Center, Room B
· Don Hyatt will e-mail the entire group with these minutes and encourage more on-line participation/discussion via the carypolitics.org forum
Please note any omissions or corrections.
I didn't bother to re-format any of this; it isn't pretty but I think you can get the drift. In the originaly document, the 'è' that you see below really is an arrow, to show what the group's conclusion was.
----------------
Citizen Budget Review (“The People’s Money”)
Fifth Meeting 05/20/2004
Participants:
(* indicates attendance at this meeting)
Robin Joyce (helped facilitate first meeting only)
Adam Arnold (covering some meetings for the Cary News)
* Mike Dodson
* Matthew Danielson
* Brent Miller
John Finn
Katherine Haney
Daryl Baker
Josh Mills
Ray Czarnecki
Bynum Walter
Matt Walter
Ron Woodard
Ken Elowitz
Darryl Black
Tom McCuiston
Cathy Heath
Don Hyatt
* Don Frantz
* Kelly Commiskey
Lynne Loots
Betty Pickett
June Schmidt
Anita Porter
* Cas Nowak
* Karen Griffin
Spencer Combos
Mike Heath
Council members present this meeting:
None
New Participants since previous session:
None this time
Notes Since Last Meeting:
· Don Hyatt has set up a forum and e-mail list on the carypolitics.org Web site for use by the group for general discussion (thanks, Don!). We need to make more effective use of this resource.
· We submitted an interim report to Cary Town Council so that they would have our findings, even though incomplete, in time for their first capital budget work session.
Agenda:
· Determine high/low priorities for various areas of the capital budget (similar to our exercise at the previous meetings). We have the work done by the “Mike/Cathy/Karen” subcommittee to assess, to wit:
Capital Improvements Page
1) Transportation CIP - Comment, coordinate better long term planning on road projects and improvement. For instance, several years ago Weston Parkway was repaved. About a year later, either water or gas lines were run along Weston Parkway. Now Weston Parkway is once again in need of re-paving.
è Good idea to try to have better coordination of this planning
2) Fire CIP - Did they buy the "Education Trailer? ($80,000)" Was it really necessary?
è Mixed opinions. Noted that (1) other fire education opportunities (visit the station) exist; and (2) no one in this group has ever seen this trailer (did we buy it? If so, are we getting enough use out of it)?
3) Parks & Rec CIP - Item P, US 1/64 Pedestrian Crossing (bridge); Status? Why? Road Improvement?
è Originally was budgeted for $500,000; went to $1.2M; at last Council meeting, it was noted that it had gone to $1.8M. It doesn’t seem necessary. Staff had previously advised one committee member that pedestrian bridges (and tunnels) normally are avoided (people just don’t use them). What is the projected pedestrian traffic for this? This seems to the committee like an unnecessary expenditure of a lot of money. Very low priority.
Item H, Open Space Acquisition; How much was actually spent in 2003?
è One opinion that we might be willing to cut this by around 15% for FY ’05 (on the principle that all areas ought to share some of the budget cuts). In general, though support for open space acquisition from the utility fund remains very high (affirmed from last session).
Item O, Tryon Road Crossing; Status? What is this? A bridge? A Tunnel? Why here? Road Improvement?
è We don’t know what this is (but we would like to)
4) General Government CIP -
Item A, Alternative Fueling Feasibility Study/Station; Why? Many national studies already done?
è Was this really necessary? General consensus among the group: We hire too many consultants and spend too much money on independent consultants. Do we have someone who is a grant writer on Staff? Don’t we have sufficient expertise for many of these studies on Staff and in the community? How much have we/will we spend on consultants?
Item C, Park Street Culvert Replacement; Status & Why? Road Improvement?
è Was this for stormwater remediation?
Item D, TCAP - Streetscape Improvements? Status & Why? Where is the money in the budget for overall construction of the Town Center?
è All the money seems to be going for consultants and plans, not tangible results. Are we planning the streetscape in conjunction with the transportation plan (that is, are we going to put in sidewalks and lights and plants and then tear it back up to put in a roundabout?) In any case, are we really going to invest in downtown? And is streetscape the right place to start? Can we get some of this from the developers when the areas are developed? Some feeling in the group that streetscape isn’t the right place to start – things like development/redevelopment incentives may be more important.
Item E, Temporary Disposal/Open Space Land; Status & Why?
è This is the biosolids disposal.
Item F, Yard Waste/Transfer/Recycling Facility; Status? Is this new facility or upgrades to existing facility?
è This is storm debris disposal. Is this more economical than, say, having a regional facility?
5) Utility Fund Expenses by Function:
Under Other/Contingency; In FY2002, $11,097,034 (Actual), in FY2003 $13,479,355 (actual), in FY2004, $873,961 (budget). There was a 93.5% difference from FY2003 and FY2004. Special note: Includes $11.2 million for open space projects in FY2002, $13.5 million for annexation projects in FY2003, and $1 million for open space projects in FY2004.
Questions? Why were not these large budget items but as separate line items. Why were these items under Utility fund, especially open space? Where is the million dollars for Open Space in FY2004? What exactly is "General Fund Reimbursement" and how is it different from "Debt Service?"
è What are the annexation projects? Was this to run water/sewer to annexed areas? General fund reimbursement is for things like staff salaries associated with utilities, but that doesn’t account for everything.
6) Graphs on overall Debt: Do these graphs, especially projected debt, reflect $130 million road bond and $30 million Park & Rec Bond. What is the project price of the new Waste Water Treatment Facility? Is there a graph or chart that factors in these items. Just because a bond was passed, does it mean we have to spend it? How much more debt can Cary maintain and still keep its AAA bond rating (without raising taxes)?
è Need more detail here.
7) We concluded it would be nice to be able to see what the "actuals" for FY2004 are currently at. that way, if some big expenses that haven't been purchased yet, they can either be canceled or moved into the next fiscal year. We also thought it would be nice to see where large budget
items or trust fund money that was moved around, and where it went.
1) Based on data we found in the budget book, we recommend that the City budget for a "special" census in FY05-06. The last special census generated over 4 millions dollars in additional revenue.
è This could be very well worth the investment, but probably FY ’06 or later (given potential annexation, increasing growth rates, etc.)
2) Water Conservation - we think the town should still make an effort to make water conservation a priority, but they could loosen some of the current restrictions.
è Little support for loosening conservation, other than maybe a little bit for businesses, and especially not for the purpose of generating more utility revenue. Consensus that we should re-evaluate our current tier structure (commercial should bear more of the burden/upcoming increase…but not to the point where operating expenses for businesses are non-competitive)
3) Continue to look at ways the TOC could privatize any of its services; (i.e., if the service is available in the phone book.....)
è What are candidate services for privatization (and what level of support is there for this in the group)?
Trash pickup (not much support for privatizing this…but we might want to look at levels of service and fees, which currently are heavily subsidized).
Town vehicle maintenance (could this be done on a bid basis by private companies? Could just some of the town’s maintenance be bid to private business? Concern that this could be difficult/complex)
Landscape maintenance (some support for this)
Technology/computers (concerns with security/privacy if we did this)
Billing/collections/accounts payable & receivable (some support for this…do we do any of this?)
Sell the time on Cary’s TV channel (to public groups)? Much support in the group for this.
When we build new town facilities (arts centers, parks, etc.), consider including revenue-generating options (things that can be rented by groups for weddings, etc.). Consider policy changes to enhance revenue generation (e.g., allow alcohol for certain events)
OK, this sounds a little off the wall, but it has been shown to work in other municipalities: “The official soda/snack/etc. of Cary” – and encourage local businesses.
Consider selling naming rights to Cary venues.
Consider advertising on CTran.
4) Keep any revenue earned in the department in which it was earned; i.e., look very closely on money that is transferred from one department to pay for something in another department.
è Agreed – this is one of our already-established general principles from a previous meeting.
5) Recommend that the town commence an external audit. We hope that this audit might find some funds that might be available to use for budget shortfalls and ensure that the people's money is properly accounted for.
è What audits are done on the town’s finances?
Requests for Information:
Brent will consolidate these on behalf of the group and send to appropriate staff members to ask for more data:
· What is the “Tryon Road crossing” (see item above)?
· Do we have anyone who is a grant writer on Staff?
· How much did we spend on consultants in FY ’04? How much is budgeted in FY ’05?
· What explains the other/contingency line item and the general fund transfers in the Utility fund (would like more details)?
· Do these graphs, especially projected debt, reflect $130 million road bond and $30 million Park & Rec Bond. What is the project price of the new Waste Water Treatment Facility? Is there a graph or chart that factors in these items. Just because a bond was passed, does it mean we have to spend it? How much more debt can Cary maintain and still keep its AAA bond rating (without raising taxes)?
· When can we get the 2004 actuals?
· When can we get the 2005 budget?
· Have we looked at doing a special census in FY ’05 or FY ’06?
· How frequently are the Town finances audited?
· How much money has been spent on Council/Staff retreats in FY ’04 and what’s budgeted for FY ’05?
· How much money is spent on “perks” for Staff/council (things like dinner at Ruth’s Chris, reserved tickets at Regency Amphitheater, etc.)
Questions/General Observations:
· See above
Discussion
· See above
Priorities:
· See above
· One new one: we would very much like to cut the amount of money spent on council retreats.
Ideas Going Forward:
From previous meetings:
By approximately May 5[now past], we should have a general report on group consensus on “general principles” for the capital budget (as input to the Council Budget work session for the capital budget on May 12) and similar input for the operating budget by approximately May 18, for the Council Budget work session for the operating budget on May 25.
We can follow this up with specific recommendations for the FY ’05 budget once it is available
Growth management needs to be a future discussion topic
Next Steps:
· Request any follow-up information from Staff (none new)
· Schedule for next meetings
o Tuesday, May 25, 6:30 p.m.: Topic: TBD (suggestions: growth management, cost of annexation). Location Bond Park Community Center, Dogwood Room Note: Brent won’t be there; need a volunteer to take notes.
o Thursday, June 3, 6:30 p.m.: Topic: TBD (probably needs to include discussion of presenting our final report). Location Herb Young Community Center, Room B
· Don Hyatt will e-mail the entire group with these minutes and encourage more on-line participation/discussion via the carypolitics.org forum
Please note any omissions or corrections.