FINAL REPORT

[Brent]

This is the place where we'll review, comment on and approve our final report.

I have prepared a DRAFT final report and accompanying presentation.

Draft Report (http://carypolitics.org/Citizen Budget Review-FinalReport-DRAFT.pdf)
Draft Presentation (http://carypolitics.org/Citizen Budget Review-FinalReportPresentation-DRAFT.pdf)

Here is what everyone needs to do:

1. Please review and comment on the report and presentation. Comments posted here in this thread are preferred.

2. If your name is listed as a submitter (at the end of the report) and you DON"t want it there, please advise. And if your name is NOT listed as a submitter and you DO want it there, please advise (the current list includes the "regular participants" in the group, but others who have participated are free to indicate their support or non-support for the final report). [I have asked Don Hyatt to e-mail the entire group, to reach those people who don't normally check this forum]

The plan for presenting this report is:

- We will provide (paper) copies of the report and presentation to the Town Clerk, who will make sure that each Council member gets a copy.

- A group of volunteers will present the report, as a group in sequence, at the budget public hearing at the Town Council meeting this coming Thursday June 10, meeting starts at 6:30. So far, all of the following have agreed to be a speaker if needed (we need to come up with a "script" based on the report/presentation to see how we can best divide up the speaking duties): Cathy (introduction), Ron, Brent, Karen, Kelly (wrap-up), Mike, Matthew, Don F., Don H. Note that a couple people would just as soon be a non-speaking supporter if they can, but they're willing to speak if needed; and that a couple of people would prefer to use their public hearing time to speak as individuals about specific budget issues, so long as the group has enough speakers (which it appears it will).

Once we have agreed on the final report, we can come up with an outline or script for those who are going to speak.

So, all that said, please post your comments here. We haven't got much time.

[Brent]

Nothing new, just posting a reply so that this forum will show up as having new content, to alert people that Mr. Hyatt has graciously placed links to the documents in the original post above.

So please review & comment on these.

Thanks.

[Wuptdo]

Nice Job Brent!

(This would be a good time to plug in Darth Vader's theme music).

(this was done in notepad - not very neat)

Here is my 2 cents (primarly format):

1.2 this is where the names and meetings are mentioned:

6 Meetings (underlined)
Name, name, name,

5 Meetings (underlined)
Name, Name, Name

4 Meetings (underlined)
Name, Name

3 or less Meetings (underlined)
Name, Name

"(for the record, a majority....)" - recommend delete

1.3 I would mention again that due to time constraints primarily focus was on CIP.

2.2 Recommend remove (1 dissenting voice) from Police & Fire. Note needed as we mentioned above that we always didn't have "complete" agreement.

Also the list; was this by any order or was it random?

Suggest we break up 2.2 and add a 2.3

(title?) 2.2 Key & Essentional Services
(title?) 2.3 Specific Budget Service
(Would do this after the "Maintence/operations" bullet)

on 2.3 (recommend add) items; recommend any "suggestions" should be in bullet form and maybe even italized.


###

Ok, now just thinking out loud. Didn't we have some items that we talked about specific cuts or
increase, or am I thinking about "work sessions"?

This is my 2 cents - Thanks

Mike D
B-)

[Brent]

Mike,

Good observations. Here's what I've done thus far; see how this strikes you:


1.2 this is where the names and meetings are mentioned:

6 Meetings (underlined)
Name, name, name,

5 Meetings (underlined)
Name, Name, Name

4 Meetings (underlined)
Name, Name

3 or less Meetings (underlined)
Name, Name

This ended up looking a bit strange and tended to shortchange those who had attended 3 meetings (vs., say, 1 meeting). So instead I listed the participants in order of participation, thusly:


We held 6 in-person meetings over a 10-week period. Citizen participants are listed next in order of their participation, with the number of meetings attended shown in parentheses. In addition to the in-person meetings, we have also held subcommittee work sessions and e-mail and on-line forum discussion of various budget issues.

Matthew Danielson (6)
Mike Dodson (6)
Brent Miller (6)
Karen Griffin (5)
Cathy Heath (5)
Kelly Commiskey (4)
Ron Woodard (4)
Don Frantz (3)
Don Hyatt (3)
Cas Nowak (3)
Katherine Haney (2)
Lynn Loots (2)
Daryl Baker (1)
Darryl Black (1)
Spencer Combos (1)
Ray Czarnecki (1)
Ken Elowitz (1)
John Finn (1)
Mike Heath (1)
Tom McCuiston (1)
Josh Mills (1)
Betty Pickett (1)
June Schmidt (1)
Anita Porter (1)
Bynum Walter (1)
Matt Walter (1)



What do you think of this alternative?


"(for the record, a majority....)" - recommend delete

This is just there because we mention that council members attended. If a majority of council members attends a meeting, it's supposed to be a "public meeting" subject to public records. This is to note that that never happened, just for a "legal disclaimer". I'd prefer to leave this in for that reason.


1.3 I would mention again that due to time constraints primarily focus was on CIP.

Added this.


2.2 Recommend remove (1 dissenting voice) from Police & Fire. Note needed as we mentioned above that we always didn't have "complete" agreement.

Done.


Also the list; was this by any order or was it random?

Just the order it was recorded in the meeting.


Suggest we break up 2.2 and add a 2.3

(title?) 2.2 Key & Essentional Services
(title?) 2.3 Specific Budget Service
(Would do this after the "Maintence/operations" bullet)

on 2.3 (recommend add) items; recommend any "suggestions" should be in bullet form and maybe even italized.


###

Done, as best as I understand this (I think I get it). Will send a new draft to Hyatt for posting.

THANKS!

[MattD]

Brent -

I printed out the material and will read it this morning/afternoon. I'll have my comments posted later today. Thanks.

[Wuptdo]

Thanks Brent. However, I was expecting at least two other folks to chime in. This is a group effort.

B-Z

Mike B-)

[Brent]

Yes, I'd like to incorporate comments from everyone before we say we're "done".

Thanks.

[Karen]

My first read through I didn't see anything that really struck me as needing to be changed. I'll go through it again and post any comments I have.

Again, public speaking to me is stressful to put it mildly but I am willing if needed.

Karen

[Cathy]

Brent

I noticed that no where in this report is a statement of position on involuntary annexations of existing development?
This was discussed, and I thought that an opinion on it's effect on the Town's finances was reached.

As far as the general document is concerned, I too will be printing it out to further review and make notes. My first impression is that I will have little to suggest in the way of tweaks. I do like the PwrPt version.

Cathy

[Brent]

Cathy,

I, too, recall some (apparently unstructured) discussions of the cost of annexation. Going back through the minutes, this was a highlighted topic for future structured discussion (numerous times) that we apparently never got to, or if we did, I failed to record any structured conclusions.

There is a topic on this forum that discusses this, but it didn't have a lot of activity.

I think this may be one of those topics -- like growth policy in general -- that we identified and talked about, but if we had group consensus in any structured way I missed it.

I would LIKE to have group input on this, if anyone can recollect anything that wasn't appropriately recorded. The final report is just a summation of the recorded minutes. Either we didn't get to this topic like we should have or I didn't capture the discussion appropriately (I am sure that either could be the case).

If we can reconstruct any discussion or conclusions and ensure that it was a group consensus item (or if it's possible to do that online in the next day or two), I'm all for putting something in.

[Cathy]

Brent,

What about the Preston group who posted their conclusion in a LTE? Forced Annexation was one of their concerns in regard to the expense to the Town for this.
How many of the people in that group are listed as members of the Budget Review? I did not bring it up again at meetings because I thought that this was something that had already been decided.

Cathy

[Karen]

I agree that there was not much structured discussion on the annexation topic. I do recall that when brought up though, most everyone was against involuntary annexation. From a fiscal standpoint it seems to be more costly to the town if I remember some of Cathy's numbers.

Anyone else???

Karen

[Karen]

Just thinking out loud. What priority would the group list involuntary/forced annexation as??? I'd put it low at a 0 or 1. Maybe we could get quick feedback this way???

Karen

[Brent]

The minutes reflect that we went through the Preston HOA LTE and decided that it was a good example, and that was how we sort of kicked off our "priority ranking" process that we used at the remaining meetings.

I would agree that forced annexation should be a low priority from a budgetary perspective. If enough other people agree to a recommendation along the lines of "we recommend that forced annexation be discouraged because of the negative fiscal impact to the Town" (or whatever...wordsmith as you like), that's fine by me.

Let's hear from everyone else!

[Karen]

The minutes reflect that we went through the Preston HOA LTE and decided that it was a good example, and that was how we sort of kicked off our "priority ranking" process that we used at the remaining meetings.

I would agree that forced annexation should be a low priority from a budgetary perspective. If enough other people agree to a recommendation along the lines of "we recommend that forced annexation be discouraged because of the negative fiscal impact to the Town" (or whatever...wordsmith as you like), that's fine by me.

Let's hear from everyone else!

This is fine by me.

Karen

[Wuptdo]

Adding an additional cent :wink:

If I recall, we never really decided anything about annexation, but were waiting for data on the actual cost to "involuntary" annex. I believe that "involuntary" annexation is probably done on a case-by-case basis. However, my basic feeling about involuntary annexation is that if the cost can be recovered in 7 years or less, go for it. I do not like donut holes. I think we got tied up with the water/sewer issue at the same time.

Preston LTE - I would prefer not to mention this. It is a good statement, but it was done by a different group of people and we should not take any credit for it. We can incorporate some of the principles (once re-written), but I think our work can stand on its own merits.

Aquatic Facility - I know we discussed this. If I recall we "mostly" agreed that if the town does go forward with this project, is that we preferred building a Aquatic Center that would make a "profit" for the town (Plan 3 & 4?).

Thoughts & Comments?

Mike B-)

This is wear the rubber meets the road!

[Cathy]

That sounds like the way to present it.

Cathy

[MattD]

Brent - Thanks again for putting together the working document. I know editing is much easier then writing...

Sorry that this is so long. Well, not really sorry since we were asked to review/make comments. Below are my thoughts:

1.1 Mission Statement:
- It flows better as: "This volunteer citizen group will examine, individually and through group consensus, the Town budget...." With a period after "spending priorities."

1.2 Participants:
- Remove the comma after Michael Joyce
- Anyone who expressed an interest in participating "were" (remove “has been”) added to the group.

Second paragraph, last line:
- ...we have also held subcommittee work sessions"," (remove “and”) e-mail and on-line...

Last Paragraph:
- Mayor Pro Tem Jack Smith, Julie Robison "(add: attended two meetings)" and Jennifer Robinson. **Should recognize she showed twice **
- Adam Arnold of the Cary News (remove” also has”) attended (add: “the first”) meeting (remove “one”)

2.1 General Principles:
Question on 5th bullet point: Did we favor this? I thought some money from designated funds went to parks/land acquisition. If so, I thought we were okay with this. If not, then I stand corrected.

Question on 6th bullet point: I know we thought much of the information could be brought in-house, but did we actually say the town spends too much money on consultants?

Clarification on 7th bullet point: The book is Reinventing Government by David Osborne and Ted Gaebler. Copyright: 1992.
- The Oklahoma state legislature can appropriate up to 95 percent of estimated tax revenues each year. If the remaining 5 percent is realized then the money goes into an interest-bearing account for future shortfalls. Anything above 100 percent goes into a separate rainy day fund, for emergencies.

- Dozens of cities and counties use “Expenditure Control Budget”. This eliminates all line items within departmental budges – freeing managers to move resources around as needs shift. It also allows department to keep what they didn’t spend from one year to the next, so they could shift unused funds to new priorities.

- Many governments use the philosophy of “public entrepreneurial management”. This encourages employees to come up with money-saving ideas/innovations and lets the employee keep a certain percentage of money for a certain amount of time.
On page 6, bullet: Parks: #1 priority is maintenance (unanimous in group).
- First: Can you add that the list of priorities is not in a specific order. Second, most everyone did agree that land acquisition was a solid investment. Would you add that to the top of the non-specific order list?


Under: Grants to non-profits:
- The suggestion of equally dividing the money up among all qualifying groups was not a group consensus. If I recall, at least ½ (or more) foresaw that the “pie” would be too diluted by the sheer number of groups requesting money. I believe the thought was to keep the same groups this year (if they still qualify) and not increase the amount.

Under: Revenue:
- (e.g., allow alcohol for certain events). I think I raised this as a question, not a suggestion.

Under: Designate “The official soda/snack/etc. of Cary
- Remove (this may seem a little bit “off the wall”) - This immediately gives them an out without having to consider it. Also, who would back something that seemed “off the wall”?

3. Future Opportunities:
- Remove “,” after undertaking

- Remove, remove, remove!!! “Most committee members have no special training in budgeting or finance”. This takes away so much from our group. It takes away credibility and gives council an excuse not to seriously consider our report. As in “Well, they just don’t understand a city budget”.

Last paragraph - (I’ll type the suggestions with the paragraph)
- We recommend that Cary Town Council consider a permanent Citizens Budget Review Committee. Citizen input on this important aspect of government is, we believe, very important. An open budget review process is key to an open and honest government.


DONE!!!

[MattD]

Forgot one VERY IMPORTANT issue:

4. Acknowledgements:

Please change the word "indebted". The definition of indebted means: “in debt to” or “owing a favor”. 8-O

Perhaps change it to: “We are thankful to At-large Council member….”

[Wuptdo]

Mike wrote:


(This would be a good time to plug in Darth Vader's theme music).



Matt - this applies to you much better. :wink: Editing is a tough skill to learn. I concur with Matt's recommendations as well.

Brent - I am available most afternoons for printing or small task to get this done. Just let me know.

Maybe we should plan on meeting after the council meeting to have a "drink or two." I will buy the first round 8-O !


Mike B-)

[Cathy]

I agree with Matt's corrections of the text and the suggestions for removing/revising some of the language. All good points. Thanks for doing that Matt.

And I was a little thrown by the "official soda/snack"(?) thing also. Where did this come from. It sounds "off the wall" and a little flakey to me.

I'm also glad to see the wording regarding the 2004 Budget being the basis of review for us. It sounded too apologetic before.

Cathy

[Cathy]

Mike said:

If I recall, we never really decided anything about annexation, but were waiting for data on the actual cost to "involuntary" annex. I believe that "involuntary" annexation is probably done on a case-by-case basis. However, my basic feeling about involuntary annexation is that if the cost can be recovered in 7 years or less, go for it. I do not like donut holes.

Cost recovery on the areas under consideration in 2001 ranged from 6yrs. to 40+ yrs. The average was 12 to 15 yrs. to recover costs. The areas that were the lowest in recovery time were annexed. That last forced annexation accounts for 13.5 million dollars in the 2004 CIP "Active Capitol Projects" budget spent for providing just the water and sewer main lines to annexed areas.
True donut holes should be the only focus of involuntary annexation as there are many left, but they too should be considered carefully with an honest cost/benefit to the Town in the equation.

I will try to find that Feasibilty Report from 2001 prepared by Staff that included the cost recovery time frames and I will send it to you Mike.

Cathy

[Don]

Great job Brent. Very impressive.

[Don]

Under: Revenue:
- (e.g., allow alcohol for certain events). I think I raised this as a question, not a suggestion.

good suggestion! :wink:

[Don]

Maybe we should plan on meeting after the council meeting to have a "drink or two." I will buy the first round !

See previous post. :wink:

[MattD]

Cathy -

The "official snack/drink ect" of the city idea is as folllows:

Snapple is the "official" drink of New York City. NYC will received (I thnk) up to $100 million dollars! I'm not suggesing Cary would make that much, but could we bring in 1% of that amount?

Being the #1 town, can the Town of Cary capitalize on something like this? This would allow, for example, Pepsi to be the official drink of the Town. They would have exclusive rights to vending in public area and other marketing rights.

No idea if this would fly... but would it be worth looking into? I can give more details if you want.

[Brent]

Matt,

You are an editor after my own heart. I will make these changes as soon as I can and send a new draft to Hyatt for posting/further review. If, in the meantime, there are other issues to be discussed here on-line (especially any consensus on involuntary annexation?) I will add those, too. Have already made the changes suggested by Mike as noted earlier. I probably ought to go back and see if any corresponding changes are needed in the Powerpoint presentation as well.

Mike, once we have final versions, if you are willing to get them printed, that would be great. We'll want at least 8 copies of each document, probably more (one for each council member, one for the town clerk, plus any we want for ourselves).

Still need to determine who is speaking about which parts. Are we just going to read the report, or do we need something more for the speakers?

Thanks to all.

I'm up for the drink or three after the council meeting, if it doesn't go too late.

[Wuptdo]

For the Group:

About the presentation. I like the detail of the report, and since we are providing a printed copy to Council, I am not sure how detailed our oral presentation should be. It is a good power point, but it may be too much detail. My thought is to bring it down to basics & highlights. Since this is not the realm I operate in, I have no real idea what the council would like to hear (or not to hear). Thoughts & suggestions?

Recommendation: We ask Karen to dress like Vanna White and pass out the copies of the report to council :wink: ! I bet her kids would love seeing Mom on TV.

Mike B-)

[Cathy]

Cathy -

The "official snack/drink ect" of the city idea is as folllows:

Snapple is the "official" drink of New York City. NYC will received (I thnk) up to $100 million dollars! I'm not suggesing Cary would make that much, but could we bring in 1% of that amount?

Being the #1 town, can the Town of Cary capitalize on something like this? This would allow, for example, Pepsi to be the official drink of the Town. They would have exclusive rights to vending in public area and other marketing rights.

No idea if this would fly... but would it be worth looking into? I can give more details if you want.

Okay... I got it, but I think that the way that this is presented should be worded differently from the way it is now. What you have just said here could be "cut & paste" into the document as a better way to present it.

Cathy

[Brent]

I can re-word as such.

I think what would be ideal is if the oral presentation to council were somehow "in between" the Powerpoint presentation and the full report. To do that would require developing some sort of "script" or at least an outline for that. I do not expect to have time to do that before Thursday. If someone else is willing to take a crack at it -- particularly someone who will be doing part of the speaking -- that would be good. Otherwise, I think we are more or less stuck with reading, or at least summarizing in some fashion, the full report.

Although I am definitely in favor of the "Vanna White" report distribution, unfortunately the rule is that we have to give all the paper copies to the Town Clerk in advance of the meeting, and she will distribute them to Council before the meeting.

I will do my best to post revised materials here this evening. After this evening, I won't have much time to work on them, so they can either be satisfactory or someone else can take over the editing.

[MattD]

Up to now, our group has worked very well together. Unfortunately, this post is when the group will start to turn against me. :cry:

Involuntary annexation.

There are so many issues involving this topic from:
#1 - The many "doughnuts" in Cary that need to be filled in

#2 - Should future growth create more doughnuts or fill them in

#3 - Does Cary provide EMT for persons living in doughnuts (if so, then they are getting all Cary benefits w/o paying their share)

#4 - Council wants Cary to grow (see reducing Development fees), so does the Long Range Plan call for annexation?

#5 - What are other towns doing about annexation? How many more Cary/Apex battles are we going to get into? In this case, I would rather be more pro-active then allowing other towns to determine Cary's course of action.

With the amount of land available, Cary could become larger than Raleigh. I am NOT in favor of this!

I believe Cary needs to anticpate and focus on the future growth patterns/demands. If an ounce of prevention (annexation) is better then a pound of cure (cost of future infra-strucure needs) makes sense... then it makes sense to do the right thing.

That said... we also need to protect the rights of the property owner and ensure they are being represented. For me, clearly, Wake County needs to develop a long range plan by working with all muni's.

[Cathy]

Matt,

You simply need to clarify the distintion between annexation and annexation of previously developed areas. SHOULD the Town take on the capital costs of redeveloping neighborhoods to municipal services just to collect property taxes?

There is a HUGE difference between annexing new developments with an agreement between the Town and the builder vs taking in existing neighborhoods on the periphery of the Town and having to bear the cost of new infrastructure that State Law requires.

You can't plan the growth of neighborhoods that are already built.

Collecting property taxes from involuntary annexation does not offset the immediate cost to the Town for MANY, MANY years!

Don't let existing donut holes stop you from approaching the forced annexation issue logically. These areas can be taken care of by the Town without being heavy handed or overly aggressive. Be a better salesperson to those areas.

Cathy

[Karen]

Recommendation: We ask Karen to dress like Vanna White and pass out the copies of the report to council :wink: ! I bet her kids would love seeing Mom on TV. Mike B-)

Ain't gonna happen!!! :P

I agree with Matt's editing.

I don't really have a lot to add.

Karen

[Brent]

Matt,

I attempted to incorporate all of these edits, although I took a tiny bit of editorial license when addressing them. Responses follow.


1.1 Mission Statement:
- It flows better as: "This volunteer citizen group will examine, individually and through group consensus, the Town budget...." With a period after "spending priorities."

I agree. However, the intent was that the "group and individual input" was supposed to go with the "feedback" clause, not the "review" clause. I left this as is, and I hope that Miss Bryant, my HS English teacher, won't be reviewing it. It's not great writing, but we've already published this in previous meeting minutes and the interim report, so I'd rather just leave it as is and admit that it's not my best writing.


1.2 Participants:
- Remove the comma after Michael Joyce
- Anyone who expressed an interest in participating "were" (remove “has been”) added to the group.

Done. Although I used "was" instead of "were" ("anyone" is singular, I think).


Second paragraph, last line:
- ...we have also held subcommittee work sessions"," (remove “and”) e-mail and on-line...

Done


Last Paragraph:
- Mayor Pro Tem Jack Smith, Julie Robison "(add: attended two meetings)" and Jennifer Robinson. **Should recognize she showed twice **
- Adam Arnold of the Cary News (remove” also has”) attended (add: “the first”) meeting (remove “one”)

Done


2.1 General Principles:
Question on 5th bullet point: Did we favor this? I thought some money from designated funds went to parks/land acquisition. If so, I thought we were okay with this. If not, then I stand corrected.

We had established this principle early on, about the second meeting, I think (the one at Copeland's). We did favor the use of utility funds for open space preservation, but they are designated for that. We wondered a bit about the transfer from the utility fund to the general fund for non-open-space-preservation uses, I recall. In any case, I added a caveat phrase, just to be sure.


Question on 6th bullet point: I know we thought much of the information could be brought in-house, but did we actually say the town spends too much money on consultants?

I thought we did. But I re-worded it to say something like "strive to spend less". Same general message, less aggressive phrasing.


Clarification on 7th bullet point: The book is Reinventing Government by David Osborne and Ted Gaebler. Copyright: 1992.
- The Oklahoma state legislature can appropriate up to 95 percent of estimated tax revenues each year. If the remaining 5 percent is realized then the money goes into an interest-bearing account for future shortfalls. Anything above 100 percent goes into a separate rainy day fund, for emergencies.

- Dozens of cities and counties use “Expenditure Control Budget”. This eliminates all line items within departmental budges – freeing managers to move resources around as needs shift. It also allows department to keep what they didn’t spend from one year to the next, so they could shift unused funds to new priorities.

- Many governments use the philosophy of “public entrepreneurial management”. This encourages employees to come up with money-saving ideas/innovations and lets the employee keep a certain percentage of money for a certain amount of time.

Thanks. Replaced with the text you supplied.


On page 6, bullet: Parks: #1 priority is maintenance (unanimous in group).
- First: Can you add that the list of priorities is not in a specific order. Second, most everyone did agree that land acquisition was a solid investment. Would you add that to the top of the non-specific order list?

Done.



Under: Grants to non-profits:
- The suggestion of equally dividing the money up among all qualifying groups was not a group consensus. If I recall, at least ½ (or more) foresaw that the “pie” would be too diluted by the sheer number of groups requesting money. I believe the thought was to keep the same groups this year (if they still qualify) and not increase the amount.

I just removed the suggestion and left the remaining consensus priority.


Under: Revenue:
- (e.g., allow alcohol for certain events). I think I raised this as a question, not a suggestion.

Rephrased as a question


Under: Designate “The official soda/snack/etc. of Cary
- Remove (this may seem a little bit “off the wall”) - This immediately gives them an out without having to consider it. Also, who would back something that seemed “off the wall”?

Removed the offending text, and added your text from a separate post on this thread.


3. Future Opportunities:
- Remove “,” after undertaking

Done


- Remove, remove, remove!!! “Most committee members have no special training in budgeting or finance”. This takes away so much from our group. It takes away credibility and gives council an excuse not to seriously consider our report. As in “Well, they just don’t understand a city budget”.

Done


Last paragraph - (I’ll type the suggestions with the paragraph)
- We recommend that Cary Town Council consider a permanent Citizens Budget Review Committee. Citizen input on this important aspect of government is, we believe, very important. An open budget review process is key to an open and honest government.

Done.



DONE!!!

Me too!

Thanks!

[Brent]

Final RC1 Report (http://carypolitics.org/Citizen Budget Review-FinalReport-DRAFT2.pdf)
Final RC1 Presentation (http://carypolitics.org/Citizen Budget Review-FinalReport-Presentation-DRAFT2.pdf)

I have attempted to respond to all comments received. These include:

- Wuptdo's comments earlier in this thread

- Matt's comments earlier in this thread

- Added an item about involuntary annexation that I think/hope summarizes the discussion here (indicates a majority/minority opinion)

- Some other editorial things I discovered myself

- Added header/footer and table of contents

- Listed myself first and as "chair", only because someone sent a comment by e-mail insisting on this. If someone else insists that this be changed back to the way it was, I have no problem with that.

- Very minor corresponding changes to the Powerpoint presentation.

I have sent Hyatt the potentially final drafts, in the hope that he can post them here for one final review.

I WILL NOT BE ABLE TO DO ANY MORE EDITING OF THESE BEFORE THEIR PRESENTATION THURSDAY [(no available time). If people find other things that need to be changed, please go ahead and change them -- I have also sent Hyatt the Word and PPT source files so that someone else can edit them if they wish to.

I do suggest that we generate PDF files for the final report.

Wuptdo/Mike has agreed to print copies once everyone agrees on the content. We will need at least 8 copies of each document (presentation and report), and we have to give them to the Town Clerk by 6:20 p.m. Thursday (earlier than that would be better), at the Council meeting at the Herb Young Community Center (I will be there, for sure).

And we still need to decide who all is speaking and what portion each person will say. I apologize, but I have no time to spend on preparing a speakers' "script". My best suggestion is that people who want to speak show up and divide up speaking about various pieces of the report. Cathy wanted to lead off, and Kelly wanted to conclude.

Hopefully we can wing it from here and wrap this up nicely.

THANKS EVERYONE!

[Wuptdo]

Brent & Don,

My plan is to wait till about 1 PM on Thursday, print final report here, and head on down to the copy store. If all agreed, then Noon on Thursday will be cut off (hopefully sooner).

Should we also print copies of the power point, or just leave on disk? Please advise.

OK, one more time, who wants to help present the power point?

From the meeting if I recall correctly the order is something like this:

1) Brent - Opening ( ___ pages?)
2) Part One (____ pages?)
3) Part Two (____ pages?)
4) Part Three (____ pages?)
5) Kelly - Closing (_____ pages?)

We may have to add a part; after further review. Need to see volunteers for speaking roles.

I will take a part; who else? Please advise.

Thanks,

Mike B-)

Oh, and the biggee, what is everyone going to wear, i.e., should I wear a tie with my Hawaian Shirt? Diamonds or pearls? :wink:

[dhyatt]

I'm willing to help present only if we wind up needing the coverage. In addition to Brent, Kelly, & Wup, I'd like to see Karen, Cathy & Matt participate ahead of me though...

[Brent]

Noon Thursday sounds reasonable if it's doable for you, Mike,

Anything that we want to give to Council needs to be printed -- we will NOT be showing any presentation or anything on the monitors. So I think we want to print the Powerpoint presentation as well as the report.

I DO NOT PLAN TO SPEAK UNLESS NEEDED. The opening slot was something that Cathy wanted to do. Mike, Matt, Karen, Ron all agreed to speak as required. Don & Don are willing, too, but like me, will defer to others.
(Given the choice, I would prefer to use my "speaking slot" to talk about SROs, given that there are apparently plenty of people to speak for the group).

Everyone who's speaking or watching, please be at the Herb Young Community Center (NOT the old Council chambers!) at 6:30 p.m. Thursday. The budget public hearing is one of the first items on the agenda.

[MattD]

Which ever page needs to be done, you can count me in.

Brent - GREAT job on the corrections - Did you get the one regarding changing the word indebted to thanks?

[Brent]

Matt, yes I got this one -- used "grateful", if I recall correctly.

[Brent]

Please note that Hyatt has posted links to the "final" final report and presentation (with all the edits noted earlier) in my earlier post above, for your "final" final review (click on the blue text!).

[Brent]

Oh, and the biggee, what is everyone going to wear, i.e., should I wear a tie with my Hawaian Shirt? Diamonds or pearls? :wink:

I'll be coming from the SRO protest, so I'll be wearing my blue shirt. :wink:

A simple string of pearls is always nice. :lol:

[Karen]

I agreed to speak if absolutely needed. Public speaking terrifies me to put it bluntly. :oops: But I guess at this point I'm needed so count me in as a speaker. I think I would feel comfortable with the opening comments. Please advise.

Karen

[Karen]

Oooops, opening comments are Cathy's right??? Sorry. Just let me know what's needed...

Karen

[kellyc]

I'll take the last 2 pages to present

[Karen]

This is just a curiosity question. Has anyone heard feedback from anyone else listed as participants besides the "regulars". ie, Don H, have you gotten any comments through your emailings???

Karen

[Wuptdo]

Karen Wrote:


Public speaking terrifies me to put it bluntly. But I guess at this point I'm needed so count me in as a speaker

Karen, don't worry, the best thing to do is practice in front of a mirror. If you like, come over after you get the kids, and practice with me. (And you can bring the kids and the dog as well). I too, need to sharpen my public speaking sword as well :oops: .

Next item: Later this evening, I will see who has requested which section and come up with a "speaking" order. Many Thanks to all.

Mike B-)

[Wuptdo]

Brent & DonH;

When I click on the Final RC1 Presentation I get "page not found", HTTP 404 - file not found.

The panic button is looking good!

Brent, if there were not any additional pages added to power point, I will assign based on the 1st draft. Let me know if this causes any problems.

Thanks,

Mike B-)

[Brent]

TWO URGENT UPDATES:

1. Mike, no offense and nothing personal, but having just read your LTE in the Cary News, which I vehemently disagree with and which I think ignores a tremendous amount of important facts, I would suggest that you not present the section that deals with SROs, as it appears that your view is entirely opposed to what the group consensus is (and obviously my own, but I am trying to separate these individual vs. group viewpoints as best I can). Of course you are entitled to your opinion, but the group consensus seems to differ from that.

2. I have recently learned that there will be an attempt by certain members of council to transfer the open space preservation $ from the utility fund, where it is earmarked for open space preservation, to the general fund, where it could be, in the future, grabbed for any old cause that a majority of council wanted to spend it on. In other words, part of Council is trying to "pull an Easley". I believe this is the first step toward getting rid of the open space fund entirely (and if passed, it won't take long). I would encourage whoever presents the portion of the report that deals with this to emphasize as strongly as possible that this diverse group of citizens deemed this particular item a very high priority. If any point needs to be made during the report, this is the one that needs to be made most loudly, in my estimation.

These two items happen to deal with my own personal "high priority" items, but they also are very important group consensus items, I believe. If we think we want to make any difference and have any influence on anything that Council does, I suggest that we amplify the group consensus on at least these two items, which appear to have a roughly even split on Council, from what I can tell.

My two cents' worth. I'll be at the meeting. Do we know what the speaker lineup is? Thanks to all who are doing so much to make a difference via citizen input.

As far as I know, the final versions of the document are the ones that Hyatt linked, in blue text, from my post on p. 3 of this thread.

P.S. The only other thing I thought of is that (1) the presenters should line up in a row by the podium when they're ready to speak, to ensure an uninterrupted "parade" of our group; and (2) if the first speaker would ask any other members of the group (those who aren't lined up to speak) to stand, that would be a nice recognition.

[Brent]

Brent & DonH;

When I click on the Final RC1 Presentation I get "page not found", HTTP 404 - file not found.

The panic button is looking good!

Brent, if there were not any additional pages added to power point, I will assign based on the 1st draft. Let me know if this causes any problems.

Thanks,

Mike B-)

Mike,

No new pages in the powerpoint presentation. Only minor edits in that.

I will e-mail you a copy whilst Hyatt looks into the link problem.

[Brent]

Oooops, opening comments are Cathy's right??? Sorry. Just let me know what's needed...

Karen

I vote for Karen to present the portion of the report dealing with SROs. She will do us proud.

[Brent]

Karen Wrote:


Public speaking terrifies me to put it bluntly. But I guess at this point I'm needed so count me in as a speaker

Karen, don't worry, the best thing to do is practice in front of a mirror. If you like, come over after you get the kids, and practice with me. (And you can bring the kids and the dog as well). I too, need to sharpen my public speaking sword as well :oops: .

This never worked all that well for me. Nor did the old adage of imagining everyone in the audience in their underwear (let's not go there, for anyone who is addressing Council. :lol: ).

I think you just get up and do it, and the more times you speak, the easier it gets. I think Karen will be a fine speaker, along with everyone else.

[dhyatt]

Link is fixed, sorry :-(

I've included them again here:

Final RC1 Report (http://carypolitics.org/Citizen Budget Review-FinalReport-DRAFT2.pdf)
Final RC1 Presentation (http://carypolitics.org/Citizen Budget Review-FinalReport-Presentation-DRAFT2.pdf)

[Wuptdo]

Ok, if no objectives, here is the speaking order and power point pages covered:

Cathy, Slides 1,2,3,4
Ron, Slides 5,6
Matt D, Slides 7,8,9
Mike D, Slides 10,11,12
Kelly, 13,14,15

I tried to break this up based on the slides, there is some overlap from the actually report. Please review the final report section as it relates to the power point presentation. I don't think the Council members will ask any questions, but if they do, it is best to "Be Prepared!"

It is requested that other members of the group that plan to be present, please also review the final report, just in case we need an alternate speakers.

If a Q&A session does "evolve" after the presentation, I recommend either Brent or Matt take lead as group "spokesperson."

Brent wrote:


P.S. The only other thing I thought of is that (1) the presenters should line up in a row by the podium when they're ready to speak, to ensure an uninterrupted "parade" of our group; and (2) if the first speaker would ask any other members of the group (those who aren't lined up to speak) to stand, that would be a nice recognition.

Good points.

Please either e-mail myself, Brent, & Don H, or post here, to acknowledge speaking order & pages.
Don H - Can you e-mail Ron and let him know that he has pages 5 & 6.
Thanks Don, was able to download the presentation.

Any unfinished business?

Mike B-)

[Brent]

Ok, if no objectives, here is the speaking order and power point pages covered:

Cathy, Slides 1,2,3,4
Ron, Slides 5,6
Matt D, Slides 7,8,9
Mike D, Slides 10,11,12
Kelly, 13,14,15

This works for me.

I suggest that everyone have the text of the final report available, along with the slides, to read or summarize or paraphrase the report along with the corresponding slides.

RON, please emphasize the VERY HIGH PRIORITY of the open space preservation fund.


I tried to break this up based on the slides, there is some overlap from the actually report. Please review the final report section as it relates to the power point presentation. I don't think the Council members will ask any questions, but if they do, it is best to "Be Prepared!"

Public hearings aren't dialogues. The council won't ask any questions (they're not supposed to). I wish that weren't the case, but that's the way it's run.


It is requested that other members of the group that plan to be present, please also review the final report, just in case we need an alternate speakers.

Good idea.


If a Q&A session does "evolve" after the presentation, I recommend either Brent or Matt take lead as group "spokesperson."

See above



Brent wrote:


P.S. The only other thing I thought of is that (1) the presenters should line up in a row by the podium when they're ready to speak, to ensure an uninterrupted "parade" of our group; and (2) if the first speaker would ask any other members of the group (those who aren't lined up to speak) to stand, that would be a nice recognition.

Good points.

Please either e-mail myself, Brent, & Don H, or post here, to acknowledge speaking order & pages.

Thanks Don, was able to download the presentation.

Any unfinished business?

Mike B-)

Sounds like we're in business, with perhaps only minor loose ends to tie up, which can be done at the beginning of the Council meeting, as necessary. Thanks to all for pulling everything together.

I think we are going to give the appearance of being a very organized, disciplined, focused, serious group...I really mean that. All the work we've done will be evident to anyone who's paying attention.

THEN we can go out for drinks!

[Karen]

Don H - Can you e-mail Ron and let him know that he has pages 5 & 6.
Mike B-)

I will prepare for doing 5&6 if Ron is not able to. (pg 6 includes the elementary school SRO's Brent :wink: )

Karen

[Wuptdo]

Hi folks....

When I assigned the page numbers, it was based on the pages of the power point (on the bottom). Therefore, the real page one is just a picture of the TOC symbol.

Karen - pages 5 & 6 are the "General Priniciples" - thank you for being a alternate speaker.

Any one else willing to take "alternate spots?"

Thanks,

Mike B-)

[Cathy]

So.....As an opening, should I just read the report up to the "Results" section?

Cathy

[Karen]

Hi folks....

When I assigned the page numbers, it was based on the pages of the power point (on the bottom). Therefore, the real page one is just a picture of the TOC symbol.

Karen - pages 5 & 6 are the "General Priniciples" - thank you for being a alternate speaker.

Any one else willing to take "alternate spots?"

Thanks,

Mike B-)

Oooops!!! :oops: That's good to know!!! :lol:

Karen

[johnb]

Brent,

In other words, part of Council is trying to "pull an Easley".

Nice turn of a phrase buddy. I like it.

[Wuptdo]

Brent wrote:


. I have recently learned that there will be an attempt by certain members of council to transfer the open space preservation $ from the utility fund, where it is earmarked for open space preservation, to the general fund, where it could be, in the future, grabbed for any old cause that a majority of council wanted to spend it on. In other words, part of Council is trying to "pull an Easley". I believe this is the first step toward getting rid of the open space fund entirely (and if passed, it won't take long). I would encourage whoever presents the portion of the report that deals with this to emphasize as strongly as possible that this diverse group of citizens deemed this particular item a very high priority. If any point needs to be made during the report, this is the one that needs to be made most loudly, in my estimation.


Brent, I am very uncomfortable being exposed to this type of information. If this subject came up in a open Public forum, and TC members were discussing this at a meeting, then no problem. However, if this was brought to your attention "privately" to be shared with this group, don't you think it may compromise the groups creditabilty? For all we know, the "no-show" members of the group, are cutting and pasting and forwarding to their favorite council person, group, or press, the data posted here. Then again, I could be completely wrong (hmmm, still smell like turnips).

My 2 cents is that all topics/bullets should be treated the same. All issues hold well in the report, and it will stand on its own merits (or be completely ignored).

SRO's - when discussed at the one meeting, I will admit till that point in time I had never heard of SRO's. I was aware cops were assigned to various campus, but not on a full time basis. If I had known more about the program during that meeting, I would of made a real stink about it. Bottom line, it is a "County" school system, thus a "County" fiscal problem.
(Brent - read my LTE again and think you will find we are on the same side, it is just who is going to pay. I never used any of the e-mail information you sent or anything that was said in the group for this LTE, i.e., I tried to keep at a arm's distance my opinion vice the groups. I consider your comments mentioned above (1) to be insulting and not appropriate for use in this "private" forum. However, you can say all you want in the "general" forums, there I don't mind - all I ask is honest discourse :wink: )

Moving on - I will make some extra copies of the report/presentation. Should I give a copy to Adam or send a copy to the N&O (or has this been done already :o )?

Chow -

Mike B-)

[Brent]

Brent,

In other words, part of Council is trying to "pull an Easley".

Nice turn of a phrase buddy. I like it.

Thanks. I studied under a master (JohnB). :lol:

[kellyc]

Im good to go with my section

Kelly

[Brent]

Brent wrote:


. I have recently learned that there will be an attempt by certain members of council to transfer the open space preservation $ from the utility fund, where it is earmarked for open space preservation, to the general fund, where it could be, in the future, grabbed for any old cause that a majority of council wanted to spend it on. In other words, part of Council is trying to "pull an Easley". I believe this is the first step toward getting rid of the open space fund entirely (and if passed, it won't take long). I would encourage whoever presents the portion of the report that deals with this to emphasize as strongly as possible that this diverse group of citizens deemed this particular item a very high priority. If any point needs to be made during the report, this is the one that needs to be made most loudly, in my estimation.


Brent, I am very uncomfortable being exposed to this type of information. If this subject came up in a open Public forum, and TC members were discussing this at a meeting, then no problem. However, if this was brought to your attention "privately" to be shared with this group, don't you think it may compromise the groups creditabilty? For all we know, the "no-show" members of the group, are cutting and pasting and forwarding to their favorite council person, group, or press, the data posted here. Then again, I could be completely wrong (hmmm, still smell like turnips).

My 2 cents is that all topics/bullets should be treated the same. All issues hold well in the report, and it will stand on its own merits (or be completely ignored).

This is just a rumor "via the grapevine". My only point is that if this is in fact the case, we should make clear what our group's position is. I am not suggesting that we should change anything we have already concluded, just make sure that we clearly communicate our position. I don't think there's anything "funny" going on at all (I could be wrong, too) and I don't have any concerns about the group's objectivity being compromised. I'm just saying that apparently, some of the very issues we have addressed will become "hot topics" during the budget debate, and we need to make sure we are clear about our positions -- yes, in all cases, but particularly on those where vigorous debate may occur.


SRO's - when discussed at the one meeting, I will admit till that point in time I had never heard of SRO's. I was aware cops were assigned to various campus, but not on a full time basis. If I had known more about the program during that meeting, I would of made a real stink about it. Bottom line, it is a "County" school system, thus a "County" fiscal problem.
(Brent - read my LTE again and think you will find we are on the same side, it is just who is going to pay. I never used any of the e-mail information you sent or anything that was said in the group for this LTE, i.e., I tried to keep at a arm's distance my opinion vice the groups. I consider your comments mentioned above (1) to be insulting and not appropriate for use in this "private" forum. However, you can say all you want in the "general" forums, there I don't mind - all I ask is honest discourse :wink: )

As previously noted, you are absolutely entitled to express your opinion. I do not agree with it, and I've re-read your letter. No insult was intended, believe me. If the group had concluded, for example, that SROs were low-priority, then I would have suggested that I not present that part of the report, being on the record publicly as having my own individual position on that matter. In any case, please accept my apology and assurance that nothiing personal was intended in any way.


Moving on - I will make some extra copies of the report/presentation. Should I give a copy to Adam or send a copy to the N&O (or has this been done already :o )?

Excellent idea. This has not been done, to my knowledge. I think we should do it.

Hopefully everyone can arrive a few minutes early for the Council meeting. I'll be there shortly after 6:00. We need to get the printouts to the Town Clerk no later than 6:20.

Thanks to all.

[MattD]

Tips for those uncomfortable with public speaking:

1) Take a deep breath.... relax, then smile,

2) When talking to Council, remember you are only talking with your friends,

3) If you don't want to make eye contact, look at their hair or just above their head. From the distance of where we speak, it will still look like you are making eye contact.

4) DON'T imagine them in their underwear. The laughter alone could cause sever rib damage.

5) Most important - Everyone there is there to support you!

[MattD]

I will get to Herb Young around 6:00.

Drinks afterwards?

21 posts and still a "newbie"... whatup with that 8-O

[Cathy]

Brent, I am very uncomfortable being exposed to this type of information. If this subject came up in a open Public forum, and TC members were discussing this at a meeting, then no problem. However, if this was brought to your attention "privately" to be shared with this group, don't you think it may compromise the groups creditabilty? For all we know, the "no-show" members of the group, are cutting and pasting and forwarding to their favorite council person, group, or press, the data posted here. Then again, I could be completely wrong (hmmm, still smell like turnips).

Mike B-)

Not to worry Mike. this information was reported in the Cary News.

Cathy

[Don]

I will get to Herb Young around 6:00.

Drinks afterwards?

21 posts and still a "newbie"... whatup with that 8-O

Really, I vote for "Rookie" :wink:

[Brent]

I think that the report presentation at last night's Council meeting by Cathy, Karen, Matt, Mike & Kelly (I think I got everyone?) was OUTSTANDING.

I honestly believe that all this hard work will make some amount of difference. Maybe not a huge amount in the short term, but I think that Council really respects what this group did and what we reported back. We'll see.

Mike, thanks for all the work pulling together and distributing the reports (BTW, both the Cary News and N&O received these reports). Thanks to those who presented and all those who contributed.

It would be cool to keep this momentum going.

P.S. Those who didn't attend missed Mike in a tie and Matt in a suit. They both clean up respectably well! :lol:

[Brent]

I will follow up by sending electronic copies of our final report/presentation to Council to supplement the paper copies that Mike distributed to them last night (same content, different format...we want to make it as easy as possible for them to refer to our report!).

[Karen]

A big thank you to Brent and Mike for getting all the info ready to present. THANK YOU!!! :-D

On a personal note it was a pleasure to get to work with all of you. And Cathy still has left over beer in her fridge so I say let's get together again soon just for the hell of it. :D

Also I have tshirts for Cathy and Kelly that they "won" at Harrisons so I'll hang on to them until I can get them to you. Some sort of "Brent Miller for President of Beers" deal. :lol:

Karen

[Karen]

P.S. Those who didn't attend missed Mike in a tie and Matt in a suit. They both clean up respectably well! :lol:

Respectable indeed... 8)

Kar

[Brent]

Some sort of "Brent Miller for President of Beers" deal. :lol:

Karen

Now THERE'S one office I WILL run for! :D

[Brent]

Others thought that the presentation was pretty good, too. I received this reply from Mayor McAlister when I sent the electronic copies of our presentations:

"Thanks Brent, the presentation was excellent. Thanks for your time and
commitment."

[Cathy]

I am glad that everyone feels positive about the presentation. When I am too close to the event I lose the perspective of seeing it how others do.
I watched the speakers again this AM, and I have to apologize for myself. A Public Speaker I am not. (unless it's an impromptu discussion of something I feel strongly about).

I would certainly like to have everyone over to finish off the beer, and if we plan this right, I could probably add some grilled FOOD to the venue!

WOW_! I WON something??? I was hoping to start a streak of winning soon. Next winnings need to be in cash though......I can dream.

It's going to be interesting to see what comes out of the special work session.

Cathy

[Wuptdo]

Nice Work and thank you all. I hope we can get togather next year (a little earlier) and do it again.

After the unofficial meeting at Harrison's last night, quess who took over our tables - Cary Senior Staff!

Mike B-)

(I wonder if the "Miller" girls gave anything to the Town Staffers?)

[Brent]

I watched the speakers again this AM, and I have to apologize for myself. A Public Speaker I am not.

Knock it off, Cathy. B-) I watched the replay, too. I think everyone did a fine job. Fortunately for me and others, no one expects polished speakers at Town Council hearings. It's the message that's important, and you and everyone else presented it just fine.

(of course, every once in awhile, you get one of those really good speakers like Matt...dare I say that he was "Reaganesque"?)

[Brent]

I would certainly like to have everyone over to finish off the beer, and if we plan this right, I could probably add some grilled FOOD to the venue!

Did someone say "beer"? Count me in!

[Wuptdo]

Cathy,

Just let us know when. I will bring $20 worth of wings from Buffalo Bros (I have coupons :-D ).

Mike B-)

[MattD]

(of course, every once in awhile, you get one of those really good speakers like Matt...dare I say that he was "Reaganesque"?)[/quote]

Well, there you go again...





Let's set a date at Cathy's. Should we invite MJ?

[MattD]

Okay. How do you quote someone (in the white box) and still post a message?

I think EVERYONE did a great job at TC. It will be interesting to see if they take any of our suggestions.

Brent - Congrats on TC pulling the SRO issue out for debate. Even if it doesn't go your way, you and others will still be able to have additional input.

[Brent]

Okay. How do you quote someone (in the white box) and still post a message?

Go to the post you want to quote from and click on "quote" (upper right-hand corner of the post), rather than clicking on "post reply", then you'll get a box for your reply that has their post already quoted in it -- then just make sure that the text you want to quote appears between the beginning and ending "quote" markers (which are in brackets).


Brent - Congrats on TC pulling the SRO issue out for debate. Even if it doesn't go your way, you and others will still be able to have additional input.

It was a whole lot of people who were involved in this. I am glad that it is getting further attention. And yes, even if it doesn't go the right way, it has gotten more citizen attention and maybe some people who vote the wrong way will hear a lot of "Shame, shame" in the future.

[Wuptdo]

What I find is interesting, out of all the areas the public should of made a stink on, only SRO's and some roads? Where were the pool people? Where was all the support for Parks & Rec? Why didn't we see town employee screaming for their parking deck (can they?). Beside "Interact" where were the rest of the non-profits? Everyone noticed MJ request to switch some money around. All I can think of is a lot of people are asleep at the wheel.

You think more people might have showed up if a Tax increase was on the agenda? I quess we are truly having "Good Times!"

Wuptdo B-)

[kellyc]

Where were the water rate people?

Kelly

[Cathy]

This might be of interest, since we discussed some changes to fiscal policy.
The Town could even end up with another award for performance excellence. Wouldn't that be a satisfying reward?


The Center for State and Local Government Performance promotes excellence and innovation in state and local government by providing the latest tools and strategies for solving operational and managerial challenges in a number of relevant topic areas. The center identifies and disseminates the latest best practices and lessons-learned in management strategy and performance measurement to state and municipal managers.

http://www.performanceweb.org/stateandlocal/index.htm

http://www.performanceweb.org/ccis04/awards.htm

The City and County Performance Management Awards recognizes innovative management practices in municipal government that have led to increased transparency, accountability and program performance. Download the application form.

[Brent]

What I find is interesting, out of all the areas the public should of made a stink on, only SRO's and some roads? Where were the pool people? Where was all the support for Parks & Rec?

Very good questions.


Why didn't we see town employee screaming for their parking deck (can they?).

Probably not, but they don't need to...that's already in the budget.


Beside "Interact" where were the rest of the non-profits? Everyone noticed MJ request to switch some money around. All I can think of is a lot of people are asleep at the wheel.

Very few people bother to get involved, unfortunately.

[Don]

Where were the water rate people?

Kelly

LOL!! That just sounds funny...water rate people. :wink: ....sorry

[Don]

What I find is interesting, out of all the areas the public should of made a stink on, only SRO's and some roads?

agreed as well. I expected a rather large turnout myself.



Where were the pool people?

In the pool


Where was all the support for Parks & Rec? Why didn't we see town employee screaming for their parking deck (can they?).

Would you want to be closer to town hall? :wink:


Very few people bother to get involved, unfortunately.

BUT THANK GOD FOR THOSE THAT DO!!!!!!!! RIGHT????!!! :-D :-D :-D :-D

[Cathy]

Don wrote:

BUT THANK GOD FOR THOSE THAT DO!!!!!!!! RIGHT????!!!

RIGHT!!!!

Cathy

North Carolina League of Municipalities Legislative Bulletin #5:


Anti-annexation bill fails to advance
After an hour’s debate, the House Ways and Means Committee declined to endorse HB 1695 – Kernersville Annexation Referenda, a local bill that would have put Kernersville back under pre-1959 annexation laws. The motion for a favorable report was defeated on a vote of 5 to 7, and the bill remains in committee. The committee met on Wednesday, which was NCLM Town Hall Day, and a number of municipal officials observed the committee meeting. Greensboro Mayor Keith Holliday, NCLM Executive Director Ellis Hankins and Apex Manager Bruce Radford spoke against the bill, and a Wake County citizen spoke in support. Although this bill only applies to one municipality, annexation opponents would attempt to add other cities and towns. The League will continue to oppose such efforts. We expect annexation to be a major issue in the 2005 legislative session.

Who might that have been??

[Wuptdo]

Our little committee made the paper today. See page 14!

Nice work Adam. Much better coverage than we got in the N&O.

Mike B-)

[Wuptdo]

I was reviewing our report to council with one of my professors this AM. She specializes in "small group" communications, especially jury's. Anyway, she pointed out some things about our group that you all may find interesting.

Some people don't respond well to e-mail (or internet in general). Did we ever attempt to contact members by phone? Did we offer to mail other committee members the on-going minutes. Did we ever go back and ask for their help. Did we ever try to get to know them better. Were we hostile to their ideas or comments? Basically, how hard did we try to include the "missing" members back into the group.

Multiple theories have application here, however, the bottom line is "people is people." However, with a volunteer group like this, maybe, and that is a big maybe, some people just needed a phone call to let them know that they were welcome by this group (ok, big group hug).


This is just a Rant, but I felt quilty about "missing" members. (Burden lifted)!

Mike B-)

[Brent]

Mike, these are good points, and I agree that they apply in "volunteer group" situations (I see the same sorts of things very often with Scouts).

The flip side is that in a volunteer organization, someone has to take the time to do the extra communication, and that's not always easy...especially in the situation we were in for this group.

But we can learn going forward, and if we continue (I hope so!), we should try to do better.

[MattD]

First: I agree that, had we made more effort, more people would have made our meetings. However, we dropped almost 1/2 the people by the second meeting so I'm not sure how committed they were to begin with :?

Second: Mike, you forgot to include " >:D< " for your big group hug.

Third: HOW DO I QUOTE PEOPLE (where it comes up in the box)?

Still being "fair and balanced"

Matthew[/quote]

[Don]

First: I agree that, had we made more effort, more people would have made our meetings. However, we dropped almost 1/2 the people by the second meeting so I'm not sure how committed they were to begin with :?

Agreed 100%. Some were all show, no go. Please don't think I am being rude here, but as someone who planned on being an observer at 1 meeting, I even made 3. I saw the list of those who attended the first meeting, I would have liked to see them stay with it.



Third: HOW DO I QUOTE PEOPLE (where it comes up in the box)?

hee hee hee...

[MattD]

[hee hee hee...[/quote]

Did I figure the quote thing out?

[Don]

[hee hee hee...

Did I figure the quote thing out?[/quote]

NO. :wink:

if you want to quote say.......superman. you type
and then at the end put

see how that worked out well? :-D :-D :-D

[Don]

ok, I'll stop. :D

to start the quote you type

insert their quote here

and then end with

I Mispelled quote so you could see it.
spell it right and you'll have it.

[MattD]

[quote= "Don"

I Mispelled quote so you could see it.
spell it right and you'll have it.
[/quote]

Alright Don --- I'm trusting you here!!! [-o<

[MattD]

Don ---- D'oh!

Well... which icon should apply to Don now... how about: :^o

[Brent]

Matt,

Try editing your post and placing the closing right bracket after "quote=Don".

Better yet, instead of "Post Reply", just click on the "Quote" button of the post that you want to quote and Hyatt's magic software will put in the opening and closing "quote" things for you.

[Cathy]

Matt,

Try this:
Cut and paste what the other person said to your posting, then highlight the sentence that is the quote, then go to the toolbar above the 'message' box and click on the 'Quote' button.

It's been fun watching Don yank you around, but geeez....

Cathy

[Wuptdo]

This was on Thursday's night agenda:

http://www.townofcary.org/op/ad05013.htm

Funny, where I seen some of these before? :wink:

Wuptdo B-)