Questions from Marla Dorrel

[Brent]

Group,

Marla Dorrel sends the following e-mail with some questions. Please respond to her (and the others copied on her e-mail) with your own answers, as you see fit.

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Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2004 10:04:23 -0400
From: "Marla Dorrel" <MDorrel@nc.rr.com> Add To Address Book
Subject: Re: Citizen Budget Review Committee Final Report
To: <brent@posmoroda.com>
Cc: <Sue.Rowland@TownofCary.org>, <Ernie.McAlister@TownofCary.org>, "Jack Smith" <jack.smith@TownofCary.org>, <Mike.joyce@TownofCary.org>, <jennifer.robinson@TownofCary.org>, "Julie Robison" <julie.robison@TownofCary.org>, <Nels.Roseland@TownofCary.org>, <Bill.Coleman@TownofCary.org>



Brent,

Thank you for keeping us up-dated on the committee's work - please share my
appreciate with everyone who participated.

A couple of questions come to mind, now that the committee has given its
final report:

Did any participants find that their opinions and views about the Town's
budget and operations changed from the knowledge gained through this
process? What, in general terms, was learned? Did any of the participants
also attend the Council's budget work sessions? (You would think I'd know
the answer to this one, but my recollection is vague.) If not, why not, and
would it have been helpful?

Please share these questions with those who participated, in case anyone
would like to respond on an individual basis. Thanks.

Marla
--
Marla Dorrel
Cary Town Council
District D
654-7357

[kellyc]

>Did any participants find that their opinions and views about the Town's
>budget and operations changed from the knowledge gained through this
>process?

From a personal point of view, I expected there to be a lot more blatant waste and fortunately that was not the case. I think the town runs as tight of a ship as it can, maybe tighter than some businesses. There is not a lot of excess fat in the towns budget, it really appears to truly be meat and muscle.

>What, in general terms, was learned?

It certainly was a lot more complex than I expected. I think that the initial experience we got with this would be incredible building blocks for the next budget, which will probably be even more tighter than this past budget. Citizens of Cary have an expectation of a particular level of service, that the town is trying extremely hard to meet. But with the growth revenues declining a bit, we have to make some tough choices. Most people in Cary understand the concept of budgets and not spending more than you make. If it is explained clearly, then I think the average person will be able to understand the choices that council/staff have to make. For example: Which is more important to you Bartley Park or backyard garbage pickup? If you want both are you okay with a tax / fee increase?


>Did any of the participants also attend the Council's budget work sessions? (You >would think I'd know the answer to this one, but my recollection is vague.) If not, >why not, and would it have been helpful?

From what I remember a few people attended the CIP work session, and I attended the operations work session. It was extremely helpful, but only because I got a handout from Scott at the start of the meeting. Without it, I would have gotten thru it, but to get any meaning out of it would have been tougher.

[Brent]

Thanks, Kelly. Here is what I answered, in case anyone cares:
-------------------
Marla,

Excellent questions. I will certainly share these with the
group so that each person can respond.

My own response: I learned that the only item mandated by
state law is building inspections; technically, all other
municipal services are "discretionary".

In my case, I had already had the benefit of going through
Cary's School of Government, which teaches a session about
the budget in general. Still, I learned more about the
budget process (work sessions, actual vs. budget
reconciliation and so on) and also found additional budget
considerations I wasn't aware of when poring through the
detailed line items (the devil always is in the details).

I did not attend either budget work session, owing only to
schedule conflicts (I would have liked to) -- I know that
some people in the group did attend, but I'll let them
respond for themselves.

I (and others) realized that the Town of Cary budget is a
large and complex thing. I don't think we will claim to have
mastered it, but we did gain much "group knowledge", which
is part of the basis for our recommendation to make this an
ongoing and/or more formal advisory committee (that is,
perhaps we can provide more value now that we're a ways up
the learning curve).

Thanks.

[Cathy]

I have to think about this one for a while......

Cathy

[MattD]

Cathy, Mike and I were at one of the budget sessions.

Did I learn anything? How about this... I learned (and am learning) what Town Council thinks is a priority in order to keep Cary one of the best in the nation.

I am interested in seeing what Mike Joyce does with our report. Afterall, didn't he say he would place a heavy emphasis on our recommendations?

[Wuptdo]

Mike sent the following:


Miss Doral,

This e-mail is in response to your request for information from the “Cary Budget Committee.” These are my own views and observations and as such, should have no bearing on the actual group.

Did the participants find that their opinions and views about the Town’s budget and operations changed from the knowledge gained through this process?

For me, yes. I was really expecting to find lots of “fraud, waste, & abuse” and “pork” projects. Given the short “learning” curb, we spent a considerable amount of time asking questions. Therefore, I felt we really were not in a position to make actual judgments about the budget (line item recommendations). Having worked on multi-billion dollar federal budgets (many years ago), I do see certain practices and assumptions that are used at this level of government. I don’t want to go into the various theories of spending, but let me ask you a question (and in turn, ask Mr. Coleman). Whose money is this? However, for the most part, I was happy that we were able to provide a “template” for future TC budget discussions.

What, in general terms, was learned?

More than I anticipated. My focus was primarily on the CIP. For years, the only thing I knew about the Cary budget was found in the Cary News. However, after that last election season, my curiosity was aroused. Who was telling the “truth” about the Cary budget? I am a strong believer in a balanced budget and a AAA bond rating! I digress. I think the most important thing I learn is what the different “buckets” of money are used for and long term debt financing. Also, what I found real interesting is all the long term planning that goes into the CIP.

Did any of the participants also attend the Council’s budget work sessions?

I was only able to attend the first work session (room was too small). I left the session with many more questions than answers. Most first impression was that the TC is way to “nice & polite” to the staff. I was use to budget sessions where the appropriate term would be “roasted over the coals;” i.e., prove that you need this money. However, after receiving a copy of the proposed budget, I could see that many of my questions, where in fact in hardcopy form (you all had hardcopies). I would say it was highly beneficial to me to see the TC in less formal forum. On several occasions, I had to bite my pen to stop myself for jumping up and asking the staff questions on certain subjects.

Recommendation: If this committee is made into a “formal” committee, I believe work sessions between the committee & staff would be beneficial to all, especially Town Council. In other words, let the committee do the “grunt” work with the staff, before moving on to Council (like P&Z).

I hope this helps.




Matt D wrote:


I am interested in seeing what Mike Joyce does with our report. Afterall, didn't he say he would place a heavy emphasis on our recommendations?

Yes, I would be curious too to the final outcome. I hate to see all this work go to waste and shelved.

Mike B-)

[Karen]

Busy week. I'll be sure to send Marla my thoughts. Any feedback from Mike Joyce yet on our final report???

Karen

[Brent]

Just what I saw in the paper...this is from memory, but it was along the lines of he doesn't agree with all of our recommendations, "and that's perfect".

And I wouldn't expect him to.

However, in response to Matt's and Mike's earlier posts, I would say that one way to judge the effectiveness of the group's input would be to see if it ever caused a council member to change his or her mind -- or at least go back and revisit things.

In this particular case, I wouldn't really expect that, because we were on a short runway that coincided with the "busy part" of the budget process. However, if this were an ongoing group that met throughout the year, talked with Staff, etc., then I would expect that a measure of its effectiveness would be how the input influenced staff & council members' decisions. If public input never does influence those decisions, then it's not effective.