Cary's Population Growth

[Rono]

test

[Rono]

test

[StanN]

The average change in valuations for residences in the
Triangle over the last five years has been 18.6%. Thats barely enough to keep up with inflation. I don't have data for Cary but as a rough approx. it would likely be the same. That rate squares with the valuations I have received wen I refinanced my motgage - just across Penny Rd. from DD.

Of 220 metro areas, the Triangle was in the bottom 10%. The metro's in the NE, whose taxes are much higher, had increases over the same period of 50%-70%. In my personal case, I would have been far better off financially if I had stayed in CT or NJ, i.e. the fringes of the NYC metro area- and that's after taxes.

Much of the difference seems to correlate with the availability of highly paid jobs. I suspect that it is cities that are the "foundries" of wealth and job creation. Of course it is the cities that anti-annexation legislation will undermine. Few, if any, major employers, universities, headquarters and the like can be found in unincorporated areas.

Considering that for most of us our homes are the largest source of personal wealth - have you ever considered that the policies you are pursuing will wind up shooting yourself in the foot? How many people in DD work or earn their living in the u.a.?

stan

[Rono]

[test

[StanN]

I should add to the past post that the commercial side of the property tax base - particularly plant and office equipment goes down in value raidly over time...in the last few years when there has been relatively little new investment in that category. I would suspect that if there was a reval tomorrow we would see a substantial decline in the taxes derived from office space. Vacancies are high and rental fees have declined sharply.

I agree with you that Cary has done little to promote growth within the Town. (One big exception is the up front investment in infrastructure in the NW area.) Its something I personally lobby for - but with relatively little success.

Its interesting that at least 15 municipalities across the state have internal economic development organizations, (not counting the local chamber of commerce), some like Holly Springs, much smaller than Cary. In Raleigh the mayor heads a subcommitte of the city council. In this repect, Cary behaves like a very small town with an unstructured, ad-lib approach.

Another exception, at least until recently has been the heavy investment for road infrastructure. That is a big plus for internal growth. Since the folks in Dutchman Downs use the road system every bit as much as I do - probably more, you too should be distresssed abut the 70% cut in that portion of the budget. Thats another area where an anti-annexation law will ultimately shoot you in the foot. Keeping your taxes low appears to trump all.

stan

[StanN]

Rono,

We are in close agreement on the need for Cary to stimulate the business/commercial side of the tax base. For almost four years the Economic Development Commission and it's predecessor, have labored to do so - mostly a futile effort. (I have been on the commission for two years.) The root cause is that the town council has not gotten its act together in this area. My best guess is that the one or two or are involved view it as a source of personal power and don't want to share it with anyone including the commission. ( one exception is an excellent video produced by town staff - see http://www.townofcary.org/reallife/reallife2.htm)

I am sure we agree on the past heavy emphasis on sports facilities - soccer, tennis, baseball USA and the swim palce. This approach does not pay off. It winds up more as a burdeen than a plus. This type of thing should be done mostly with private money with little help other than infrastructure from the town. I can understand why few want to support this kind of frillery with tax dollars - regardless of which side of Penny Rd. we live.

It is distressing that the road budget, which is essential to economic development, has been cut 70%.

stan

[Don]

Its interesting that at least 15 municipalities across the state have internal economic development organizations, (not counting the local chamber of commerce), some like Holly Springs, much smaller than Cary. In Raleigh the mayor heads a subcommitte of the city council. In this repect, Cary behaves like a very small town with an unstructured, ad-lib approach.
stan

So.....you're saying we need MORE government? How about giving the town and the chamber a chance to work TOGETHER? - Something that under the Lang administartion did not happen.

[StanN]

What accounts for so many other towns having an organization other than the Chamber taking care of economic development? Is it possible that Cary's Chamber (and most others) promote actions that benefit their membership. There is nothing nothing wrong with that but the interests of chamber membership may not always be identical to the interests of the community. Local merchants in the chamber are likely interested in increasing sales and profits. But economic development is aimed at jobs and increasing the tax base. The two objectives are not identical and may even conflict. Yes, the town should work with the chamber but i am far from convinced the chamber is the right organization for economic development - especially exclusively.

stan

[Don]

What accounts for so many other towns having an organization other than the Chamber taking care of economic development? Is it possible that Cary's Chamber (and most others) promote actions that benefit their membership. There is nothing nothing wrong with that but the interests of chamber membership may not always be identical to the interests of the community. Local merchants in the chamber are likely interested in increasing sales and profits. But economic development is aimed at jobs and increasing the tax base. The two objectives are not identical and may even conflict. Yes, the town should work with the chamber but i am far from convinced the chamber is the right organization for economic development - especially exclusively.

stan

If the merchants increase sales and profits, they will grow, thus creating jobs and an increased tax base.

[StanN]

Don,

What you say is true - but that is not the best place for the town to focus limited resources. The biggest payoff for a town like Cary is to focus on attracting and assisting existing fast growing, high-tech businesses. If we can succeed in increasing the number of highly paid jobs it will address the continuing problem of under-employment and unemployment and will also pay-off with increased growth in sales and profits for local merchants. Keep in mind that one of Cary's greatest strengths is its well trained, highly skilled, but under-utilized workforce.

More money invested in sports venues (and convention centers) may help restaurants and motels but it will only increase relatively low paying,, lower quality jobs.

stan

[StanN]

Don,

I agree with you about Lang and the Chamber. He over-reacted, likely due to the bad decision about FedEx. The Chamber has an important role to play and should be supported - but I don't believe it is the right organization for economic development. The biggest reason to recommend the chamber for that role is the lousy job the town has done - but thats not good logic.

Wake's support for ED has been through the Greater Raleigh Chamber of Commerce. I don't believe that has been effective - especially for Cary. We rely on them far too much for recruiting - we need a greater focus on Cary's needs. They supposedly represent Cary's interests - but take a look at their web site and draw your own conclusions. IMHO they are focused on Raleigh.

stan

[Don]

Don,

What you say is true - but that is not the best place for the town to focus limited resources. The biggest payoff for a town like Cary is to focus on attracting and assisting existing fast growing, high-tech businesses. If we can succeed in increasing the number of highly paid jobs it will address the continuing problem of under-employment and unemployment and will also pay-off with increased growth in sales and profits for local merchants. Keep in mind that one of Cary's greatest strengths is its well trained, highly skilled, but under-utilized workforce.

More money invested in sports venues (and convention centers) may help restaurants and motels but it will only increase relatively low paying,, lower quality jobs.

stan

And I believe creating more government is a poor use of limited resources. Didn't we/the area recruit a lot of high tech jobs? I believe the majority is in RTP and MANY have now downsized, layed off "highly skilled" employees, or just flat went out of business. For some reason, focusing in this area (alone) seems foolish to me.

[Don]

Don,

I agree with you about Lang and the Chamber. He over-reacted, likely due to the bad decision about FedEx. The Chamber has an important role to play and should be supported - but I don't believe it is the right organization for economic development. The biggest reason to recommend the chamber for that role is the lousy job the town has done - but thats not good logic.

Wake's support for ED has been through the Greater Raleigh Chamber of Commerce. I don't believe that has been effective - especially for Cary. We rely on them far too much for recruiting - we need a greater focus on Cary's needs. They supposedly represent Cary's interests - but take a look at their web site and draw your own conclusions. IMHO they are focused on Raleigh.

Doesn't the Planning and development committe focus on economic development as well? I believe this committee has been trying to come up with an economic development plan/policy........for years.....and they have yet to produce anything. Why then should I think ANOTHER committee would be more successful?

Yes, I would expect Raleighs Chamber of Commerce to focus on Raleigh, Durhams should focus on Durham's, and so on. Lang pretty much forced Cary's Chamber away (bad decission). Now let's see what they - working with the town - can do. Creating another government entity now seems premature to say the least.

stan[/quote]

[Cathy]

Doesn't the Planning and development committe focus on economic development as well? I believe this committee has been trying to come up with an economic development plan/policy........for years.....and they have yet to produce anything. Why then should I think ANOTHER committee would be more successful?

Good observation Don. And I agree with you about the effectiveness of another governmental agency. They just don't have the right incentive to be successful. They ususally get preoccupied with creating job security and catering to special interests that have nothing to do with the grassroots community wishes and desires. These days the Planners are too busy making the Enviro-kooks happy with 'Disneyesque' high density urban containment. Planners are "social engineers", not economic developers. (Except perhaps their own)

Cathy

[Rono]

test

[StanN]

Don wrote:


Didn't we/the area recruit a lot of high tech jobs? I believe the majority is in RTP and MANY have now downsized, layed off "highly skilled" employees, or just flat went out of business. For some reason, focusing in this area (alone) seems foolish to me.

Franz Motors would not be successful today and Cary would still be a sleepy village crossroads had not a lot of high tech businesses settled in RTP and Cary. Imagine your business without SAS. Glaxo, IBM and the like.

How much of this resulted from recruiting efforts and how much of it was due to the strong economy and the tremendous growth of high-tech in the US during the 80' and the 90's I do not know. But a lot of the older high tech businesses have moved out of the country - particularly the manufacturing side of the business.

Yes, there has been a major downsizing (not at SAS or Glaxo or other pharma and biotech's). Between Nortel and IBM alone my best guess is that about 10,000 highly paid jobs in the region have been lost. My best guess is that a least 5,000 highly paid workers in Cary were impacted as of six months ago. A lot of people have have not gotten back to the income levels they used to have. To give you and others an idea of the magnitude - the number of employed people in Wake County grew by only 20,000 over the last four years - but the population grew by 100,000 over that same period.

Despite all the bloodshed, the region remains one of the top "clusters" for high tech businesses in the country. Virtually all those who study economic development believe that similar companies tend to be attacted to geographical "clusters". One of the reasons is that they want to take advantage of the skilled, trained workforce within those clusters. Another attraction is the three major resarch oriented universities in the Triangle. While you may not think it is wise, the top ED organizations in the region are focused on developing other, new-generation, high-tech businesses.

Most low-tech and most labor intensive manufacturing businesses would not be attracted to Cary or the region due to the high cost of living and relatively high labor costs in the area.

Thats the heart of the case for focussing on high-tech for the future. Where do you think the focus should be?

stan

[StanN]

Don wrote:


Doesn't the Planning and development committe focus on economic development as well? I believe this committee has been trying to come up with an economic development plan/policy........for years.....and they have yet to produce anything. Why then should I think ANOTHER committee would be more successful?

Yes, I would expect Raleighs Chamber of Commerce to focus on Raleigh, Durhams should focus on Durham's, and so on. Lang pretty much forced Cary's Chamber away (bad decission). Now let's see what they - working with the town - can do. Creating another government entity now seems premature to say the least.

Don, I am not aware of anyone but the Economic Development Commission (formerly called the Economic Policy Advisory Board) tackling this subject.

You are ABSOLUTELY correct as to the fact that they have not produced anything of note. I do not believe that is an indictment of the volunteers who have served on the board, but rather of the CTC who have not been able to form a concensus as to what THEY want to do in ED. Until that happens, I agree with you that no government entity will make any substantial progresss. Leadership in this area cannot come from the bottom-up alone. There must be some from the top-down as well. Sadly this has been lacking from either the Lang or McAlister led Councils.

I agree with you that the Greater Raleigh Chamber of Commerce, aka Wake Economic Development, primary focus and bias is Raleigh. Some on the CTC, notably Jack Smith, who serves as liason there, do not agree. There is very little transparency to make a judgement based on the facts. But even there the primary responsibility for ED in Raleigh seems to be with Mayor Meeker and the Raleigh City Council.

stan

[Brent]

Where do you think the focus should be?


I know that was directed to Don, but here's my two cents' worth:

1. Retaining and supporting existing Cary businesses, especially small businesses, by removing obstacles and barriers to their success (this need not include expensive initiatives; I would start with little things like allowing reasonable signage to advertise that businesses are there and open for business; not having a cow if a business owner decides that her business should be pink; lowering barriers for existing business expansion/renovation/redevelopment, etc.). I would think that this is something for which the Chamber could take an effective leadership role.

2. Encouraging new small businesses by making it easier for them to locate in Cary (perhaps with things like a mentoring program, a Staff ombudsman to assist with navigating regulations and permit processes, etc. And yes, maybe even targeted development fee reductions for targeted types of businesses or targeted locations for businesses). Again, I think the Chamber could be very effective here.

3. Attracting a broad spectrum of jobs to Cary and to the region. High-tech shouldn't be the only targeted sector, although it may be an important one. Service-oriented jobs, manufacturing jobs and others all can be a plus for the region. And better regional cooperation might help -- not all the people who work at businesses in Cary will live in Cary, and people who work at businesses outside of Cary are still likely to live here.

[Don]

Stan,
I don't mean to imply we should not encourage high tech businesses/jobs to Cary or the region, but that this shouldn't be our only focus. Manufacturing, Wharehousing, Service Businesses could all benefit Cary and our neighbors. Too expensive to locate here??? I thought all the Yankees were flocking here because of lower cost of living/lower taxes, etc.??? :wink:

I would have to agree with Brent's post above. Let's focus on what we have here already and explore ways to help them become more successful. Ordinance changes that are more business friendly would be a great place to start as Brent eluded to.

Incentives packages for small business (which Cary currently does not have but is working on) would be a big plus also. Helping small businesses grow would be a worthy investment for the town and pay off in the long run in increased taxes. So many seem to forget big business starts out as small business.

Some things I and a lot of others would like to see become reality are:

Tax Abatements for Redevelopment Projects

Facade Grants

Zero/Low interest imoprovement loans

Discounted/Free services from the town such as engineering, planning, permitting, etc....

I believe Cary is working much better with it's neighbors as of late. But forming an opinion after only 7 months of an administrations efforts IMHO is a bit premature. I think we all know government takes time....alot of time - And I think in time we'll start to see Cary, Apex, Raleigh, etc.. working better together.

We also need some good incentives packages foe big business as well. (sorry, I always get stuck focusing on the "little guy") Fanging a company with outrageous impact fees when they are bringing jobs and economic development to the area is just foolish. I remember I met with Koka Booth before the election and he told me a story about SAS and the black buildings there. (three are almost identical) when the first was built, the fees were somewhere around $70,000. When the 3rd was built, the fees were over $700,000. Does this sound right to you? Me either. How much money has SAS brought to Cary?

I remember the RH Donneley issue a while back, and this was one issue I disagreed with harold on. RHD wanted Cary to kick in 25 grand so they would locate here. (on top of what the state etc. had done) I would have written the check immediately. How many jobs, home sales, etc. would this bring to Cary? Cary would make that 25 grand up in no time. A wise investment in my opinion.

Sorry for the babble, trying to work and write at the same time and my writting is bad enough without the distraction! I'll try to be more concise later, gotta run!

[Wuptdo]

Now folks, stop worring about these things. The Wake County Commish's and the Raleigh City Council have it all worked out; i.e., it is not Cary's problem (go back to being a bedroom community please!!!).

First we have the new, partiarly underground "Jessie Helms" Convention Center (lots of new jobs there);

Second, we have a great future once the "light-rail" system gets built (what I don't understand if it is a light-rail system, why are the engines diesel?)

Thirdly, RDU expansion (new parking deck, tearing down and rebuilding Terminal C, and third runway).

So just "Suck it up," pay all those new taxes, and let the "powers that be" and their "paid for" politicians handle things. Remember we are a Republic, not a democracy. :roll:

Wuptdo B-)

[Don]

Don, I am not aware of anyone but the Economic Development Commission (formerly called the Economic Policy Advisory Board) tackling this subject.

oops, you're right....... I was trying to be nice stan. Noone on P+D uses this board..... but some on EDC do :wink:


Second, we have a great future once the "light-rail" system gets built (what I don't understand if it is a light-rail system, why are the engines diesel?)

BIODIESEL!!! :wink:


You are ABSOLUTELY correct as to the fact that they have not produced anything of note. I do not believe that is an indictment of the volunteers who have served on the board, but rather of the CTC who have not been able to form a concensus as to what THEY want to do in ED. Until that happens, I agree with you that no government entity will make any substantial progresss. Leadership in this area cannot come from the bottom-up alone. There must be some from the top-down as well. Sadly this has been lacking from either the Lang or McAlister led Councils.

There has only been a McAlister led council for 7 months stan. 5 members are from BOTH the Lang council and McAlister council. I don't know about you but in 7 months I've seen a HUGE change. The winds of conservatism are blowing hard these days aren't they? To me, it seems there has been leadership and direction. Some just might not like or agree with the direction it's going. I myself have some complaints, but ALOT less than I did last year. Give the man some time. I almost feel sorry for the guy - having to come into office with a tax increase looming over his head, a huge debt to pay back, and a line of lobbyists screaming "GIMMIE!" He has 4 years to show us what he's got and if he doesn't perform, the citizens will find another to replace him.

I have some real concerns with the cut in road funding, but "if" it's only drastic for a year and then returns to an acceptable level - and "if" the "New" council continues to watch spending (as they have) then I "think" things can work out to where Cary can still be THE kick butt place to live while avoiding a tax increase.

Economic Development? Ask any business owner "what can government do to help you succeed?". The #1 answer will be "Lower Taxes". I am pretty sure this works for homeowners too.

[Cathy]

Wuptdo:

Second, we have a great future once the "light-rail" system gets built (what I don't understand if it is a light-rail system, why are the engines diesel?)

You are right Wup, it ISN"T "light rail"! It is Commuter Rail, yet I have seen more than one politico, who should know better, call it Light Rail! Kinda tells you how well informed they are. Sounds like they are just "talking heads" using jargon they know nothing about.


So just "Suck it up," pay all those new taxes, and let the "powers that be" and their "paid for" politicians handle things. Remember we are a Republic, not a democracy.

Thanks for pointing that out, Wuptdo! Some seem to forget the difference.
(voting IS important!)

Don:

There has only been a McAlister led council for 7 months stan. 5 members are from BOTH the Lang council and McAlister council. I don't know about you but in 7 months I've seen a HUGE change. The winds of conservatism are blowing hard these days aren't they? To me, it seems there has been leadership and direction. Some just might not like or agree with the direction it's going. I myself have some complaints, but ALOT less than I did last year. Give the man some time. I almost feel sorry for the guy - having to come into office with a tax increase looming over his head, a huge debt to pay back, and a line of lobbyists screaming "GIMMIE!" He has 4 years to show us what he's got and if he doesn't perform, the citizens will find another to replace him.

Well put Don! I second that assessment!


I have some real concerns with the cut in road funding, but "if" it's only drastic for a year and then returns to an acceptable level - and "if" the "New" council continues to watch spending (as they have) then I "think" things can work out to where Cary can still be THE kick butt place to live while avoiding a tax increase.
If everyone is talking about road projects that are part of Bond packages that were approved by the voters, then I hope that you are not forgetting that part of the challenge here is when the Bond projects are advanced, that starts the clock ticking for actually taking on the debt payments for the Bond money used. I don't envy Ernie in the task of deciding when the additional debt can be safely assumed. The existing debt and the additional debt for Capital Projects (like Town Hall) currently underway, that will come due and payable in the next couple of years, will cause addtional Projects to have to be carefully timed so that the debt to income ratio isn't pushed out of whack again.

Cathy

I think the fine folks of Cary are finally learning their places in life. For too long Cary has held its nose at is neighbors. Now that they are closing the Gap, the folks of Cary are starting to wonder why things dont look so good. If Cary wants to succeed they need to start offering more incentives to the little people, they need to get their water rates down.

Big Mac

[Wuptdo]

Thanks MacDaddy for the reminder!

I seem to recall in a meeting a few months ago that Mr. Smith mentioned a "big nut to crack," i.e. the future waste-water treatment plant with Apex. I think $90 million was the figure on Cary's end of the deal.

Wuptdo B-)

[StanN]

Brent, Don:

A great many of the things that both of you suggested in your posts of 7/9 have been proposed.

As far as the TOC doing any of these they were rejected- one reason given is that this would only serve to create a "huge bureaucracy".

Another proposal was to provide mentoring services through an outside volunteer organization. The chamber begged off doonating the space. The town did not have the tiny amount of money requested for publicity + space + clerical support. Reason - lack of funds.

The efforts noted above were aimed at all sorts of small, entrepreneurial businesses - high-tech or not. (I should have qualified the high-tech portion of my remarks to the recruitment and incentivizing of new, major employers.)

A "virtual" incubator (without constructing a dedicated building) has been proposed and rejected. As have incentives for existing, small businesses, including eliminating the added charge for expedited approval and an ombudsman to help target companies through the approval process.

One informal proposal was to get council and staff more proactively involved in listening to the needs of existing small businesses. Nothing happened.

A formal set of incentive guidelines - following those widely used in other NC municipalities was rejected by four of the CTC.

The newly constituted Economic Development Commission is winding up to start all over again and we spent our last meeting brainstorming and voting on new/old ideas. Here are the results. Perhaps more will come of these than previous efforts. Note the emphasis on funding - probably reflecting the fact that the EDC has no budget to do anything but meet. I am ever hopeful and will keep plugging despite past set-backs and rejections.

Stan Norwalk

CATEGORIES RECEIVING VOTES


The categories receiving votes for attention by the committee are as
follows:

TCAP (Downtown) Investments

Create an economic development/investment zone for the TCAP with local
self-financing bonds (3 votes)
Property tax base redevelopment/enhancement activity, detailed maps to
identify low performing properties, develop strategies or incentives to
enhance (1 vote)
Study opportunities for downtown attractions like an artistGÇÖs quarter or
farmersGÇÖ market expansion (1 vote)


General Economic Development

et a goal of 10,000 net new high quality jobs for Cary within five years - (took 100,000 jobs that regional triangle regional partnership had come up with, CaryGÇÖs population in proportion to the triangle population and
then added 10 percent. (2 votes)
In anticipation of Amendment 1 passage in November facilitate bringing
chamber, town and business community together to identify the
opportunities and to get ahead of the curve (1 vote)
Create a comprehensive integrated economic development plan GÇô need to
put ideas together and prioritize how they fit together (1 vote)
One stop/one call service center to new businesses or business
development growth GÇô when businesses want to move here there should be
one contact person in the Town instead of various departments (1 vote)

Entrepreneurial development incubator

Incubator for emerging technology small firm entrepreneurial development
(2 votes)

Grants

Pursue grant opportunities for business development (3 votes)

Funding

Identify ongoing annual funding source dedicated to/for incentives (5
votes)

Incentive based activities

Quality growth of business sector in the Town through incentives (1
vote)


Marketing and outreach

Hire an economic development officer (3 votes)
Focus the outreach effort aimed at target groups (3 votes)
Determine a dedicated resource to pursue and coordinate economic
development activities on a full-time basis (1 vote)
Get feedback from the Town and chamber to see if there are projects or
roles they would like the commission to serve (1 vote)
Assist and work together with Cary Chamber of Commerce to attract new
businesses and retain those already here which adhere to and promote
quality of Cary quality of life (1 vote)
Regularly participate in the Cary Chamber of Commerce Economic
Development Committee cross pollination


THE FOLLOWING CATEGORIES DID NOT RECEIVE ANY VOTES AT ALL:


Sports Venues


Infrastructure

[StanN]

Wuptdo said:


First we have the new, partiarly underground "Jessie Helms" Convention Center (lots of new jobs there);

Actually, the convention center task force projected that there would be 1,000 new jobs ( I suspect mostly at minimum wage for maids and janitors) as a result of the new Convention Center. And as Mayor Meeker, with the enthusiastic support of the Wake County Commissioners) said as he raided 85% of the countwide hotel and prepared meals tax - (I paraphrase)" Its time we do something for the people living in downtown Raleigh rather than those in the suburbs. "

Consider where the funds will come from if this giant boondoggle over-runs its construction cost or the budgeted $2 million/yr. operating subsidy -as could well be the case. It will come from funds otherwise slated for public schools, junior colleges and the human welfare safety net.

Follow the money trail. Who's to gain? Downtown land-owners; restaurant owners; hotel owners, the construction industry. Who loses? We here in Cary lose a little as we put up 20% of the tax dollars and get peanuts in return (but its no big hardship for most living here) - but its the poor folks in downtown Raleigh who potentially have the most to lose. They are the ones who most need the schools and safety net to get them out of the cycle of poverty. They are the ones most at risk and who will help them if this boondoggle over-runs? - just like the arena and many other big new projects.

Cary's follies have been peanuts compared to this boondoggle. Yes, lets call it the Jessie Helms Convention Center after that great conservative. It glorifies his true values!

And some ask why I am grumpy!

stan

[Don]

CATEGORIES RECEIVING VOTES


The categories receiving votes for attention by the committee are as
follows:

TCAP (Downtown) Investments

Create an economic development/investment zone for the TCAP with local
self-financing bonds (3 votes)
Property tax base redevelopment/enhancement activity, detailed maps to
identify low performing properties, develop strategies or incentives to
enhance (1 vote)
Study opportunities for downtown attractions like an artistGÇÖs quarter or
farmersGÇÖ market expansion (1 vote)


General Economic Development

et a goal of 10,000 net new high quality jobs for Cary within five years - (took 100,000 jobs that regional triangle regional partnership had come up with, CaryGÇÖs population in proportion to the triangle population and
then added 10 percent. (2 votes)
In anticipation of Amendment 1 passage in November facilitate bringing
chamber, town and business community together to identify the
opportunities and to get ahead of the curve (1 vote)
Create a comprehensive integrated economic development plan GÇô need to
put ideas together and prioritize how they fit together (1 vote)
One stop/one call service center to new businesses or business
development growth GÇô when businesses want to move here there should be
one contact person in the Town instead of various departments (1 vote)

Entrepreneurial development incubator

Incubator for emerging technology small firm entrepreneurial development
(2 votes)

Grants

Pursue grant opportunities for business development (3 votes)

Funding

Identify ongoing annual funding source dedicated to/for incentives (5
votes)

Incentive based activities

Quality growth of business sector in the Town through incentives (1
vote)


Marketing and outreach

Hire an economic development officer (3 votes)
Focus the outreach effort aimed at target groups (3 votes)
Determine a dedicated resource to pursue and coordinate economic
development activities on a full-time basis (1 vote)
Get feedback from the Town and chamber to see if there are projects or
roles they would like the commission to serve (1 vote)
Assist and work together with Cary Chamber of Commerce to attract new
businesses and retain those already here which adhere to and promote
quality of Cary quality of life (1 vote)
Regularly participate in the Cary Chamber of Commerce Economic
Development Committee cross pollination


THE FOLLOWING CATEGORIES DID NOT RECEIVE ANY VOTES AT ALL:


Sports Venues


Infrastructure

Maybe I'm just not getting it, but the vote tally above - is that the #of yes votes total, or how much they passed by or what? Infrustructure recieved no votes? You said good roads, nominal traffic, and parks were huge economic development tools? You didn't vote to give this attention? I see 3 votes to hire more staff (an ED officer?)?

[StanN]

Don,

Each person 0f the 10 attending had three votes to cast for the items we
had each proposed during the brainstorming session. There was no in-depth discussion re the items posted. The tally you see was the total # of votes. In future sessions I expect we will focus on the items getting the most votes. I beleive the that the votes for an ED officer meant assigning someone from staff. The exercise was an expression of sentiment rather than an up or down vote.

As to the absence of infrastructure - a good point. I suspect the mindset of the group was that this was outside the scope of the EDC mission and rather the perogative of the CTC.

There is no question in my mind that the 70% cut in the road budget was in the wrong direction to promote economic development. I agree with your comments that a second year of the same would be of great concern. I don't believe more parks, when we have so many, adds a lot to ED.

stan

[johnb]

There has only been a McAlister led council for 7 months stan.

Don,

From what I see McAlister is violating the first rule of holes: when you're in one stop digging.

*IF* he believes, truly believes, the Lang council was as fiscally irresponsible as they really were why the hell is Regency Park still being subsidized? Rather than take bold action, he is nibbling. Rather than fight like hell to kill that Aquatics Palace, terminate the purchase of inconsequential "art", and never ending subsidies for boondoggles such as Regency, the Soccer Stadium, etc... he keeps right on shoveling more cash as these special interest projects.

Stan and the rest of the hard left is just angry that he's nibbling at the edges, they'd have a friggin myocardial infarction if the city council got serious and responsible about munincipal spending.

McMayor could do a lot to attract business here if he'd clean house at city hall. Rather than subsidize business, how about reducing the tax and regulatory burden of doing business in Cary? Who the hell wants to deal with some anal retentive Color Nazi like Nels screaming about their awning colors? We're a laughing stock in this region because of these nut jobs.

[/b]

[Cathy]

I couldn't agree with you more, John.

Of course, the actions that you suggest that Ernie take would be quite a lot less "diplomatic", and he would have to dig in his heels, prepare for the howling of those who don't and never did support him.
And he would have to trust that the base of support that elected him is truly there for him and would show their support for him taking a harder line.

Cathy

[kellyc]

I couldnt agree with you less. Ernie is doing exactly what he is supposed to be doing. He cant go whack the budget in his first year. That would border on stupidity. You take a little here this year, you take a little more next year, and you take a little more the next year. My word, look at the tantrums that were thrown when they merely suggested holding off on Bartley Park for a year. Not scrapping it, just hold off.

Obviously someone likes Cary. If you look at the rezoning cases alone, there are at least 600 new homes coming into the Weston area, a new office park going onto NC 55 & Morrisville Parkway, 200+ homes on TenTen, and a new retirement home. Thats just the zoning changes and doesn't take into account the stuff that just needs "staff approval". So obviously there are some people who arent laughing at the "nuts" in town hall.

People do laugh at the regulations in Cary, but the people who live here seem to appreciate them. I dont think you will find a single road in Cary that looks like Capital Blvd or New Bern Avenue. Is that what you want?

Kelly

[Brent]

Ernie can't by himself do any of these things.

It takes a minimum of 4 people on council to make any changes. No matter what the extent of the proposed changes might be, at least 4 people have to agree to them. If Ernie wanted to "clean house", he'd have to find 3 others who wanted to do the same.

For many of the recent items, including budget issues, it appears that it hasn't been all that difficult to find those 4 people. What I'm really disappointed in is much of the justification and rationalization for these decisions.

[TJ]

Stan Norwalk ponders the question of why he is so
grumpy and it is a question I've often asked myself.
With all due respect, it was Stan and a few others
who helped dig the hole that he now wants the Mayor
to magically plug. It was the blind support of Glen
Lang that brought us to this point in time. Its not
enough to admit that it was a big mistake, the
consequences of it are longer term.
If there is a subject about which Stan does not have
the definitive answer, I am yet to see it arise. How
the citizens up north allowed him to get out of their midst
is a mystery. Such infinite wisdom should be
encouraged to remain.

It takes time to clean up a mess and the Mayor has
to build a concensus, a job made more difficult
by the fact that there are still people on counsel
who would not be there but for the Lang steamroller
and they have to decide which direction they intend
to take now. If the Mayor starts arbitrarily tossing
around threats and arm twisting as his predecessor,
it would be counterproductive and he knows it.

Cary, with its faults, is a great place to live. If I did not
believe that I'd move to a place that was better.
Give the Mayor and the council time to get the
job underway...not completed, underway. The
voters of Cary has enough intelligence to make up
their own minds and don't really require the superior
insight of any of us to make their voice heard.
Discussion is good....constant bitching is not so
helpful. Be comfortable knowing that you, and you alone,
know exactly what should be done and where and when.
Let the rest of us find our way.

[StanN]

TJ,

Thanks for the compliment. I never realized how influnetial my opinion was before your flattering remarks. Now that I know, I will be sure to work harder at supporting the candidates who make sense.

As to Ernie twisting arms - you must be kidding! How else did he get such a radical change in policy passed with so little opposition or discussion? And with virtually no hard evidence he was correct. If its not Ernie doing the pressuring then i must be Nelson Dollar or other bigwigs in the Republican Party.

Then again - you may be , it didn't take more than a nanosecond for Jack Smith to change his colors.

Stan

[StanN]

left out a word... you maybe RIGHT....how true.

sn

[Don]

As to Ernie twisting arms - you must be kidding! How else did he get such a radical change in policy passed with so little opposition or discussion?

Stan

Maybe some of the others have no backbone to stand up and support the initiatives they fought for not so long ago? Not accusing of course, just pondering..........

[Don]

People do laugh at the regulations in Cary, but the people who live here seem to appreciate them. I dont think you will find a single road in Cary that looks like Capital Blvd or New Bern Avenue. Is that what you want?

Kelly

You are "sorta" right. While we don't have a capital Blvd., We do have our own disaster called Crossroads. And with more commercial and building on the way, it's gonna get worse.

[johnb]

He cant go whack the budget in his first year. That would border on stupidity.

Why? What do you find so offensive about NOT spending the soon to be half a million bucks on those gawdawful metallic trees for that public "art" project? Why would it be 'stupid' to NOT waste that money on that trash?

So obviously there are some people who arent laughing at the "nuts" in town hall.

Some. Have you ever stopped to ponder the cost increase we drop on ourselves by voting people like Nels onto the city council? The increased costs of doing business in this city are passed right back to you and I. Whether those costs are paying to build fake windows with properly colored bricks to make Nels warm and fuzzy or if it's the loss of business were a ban on cigarette smoking in bars to be implemented. You people need to stop and look around you. Most of y'all are REFUGEES from New York, New England, New Jersey and other northern rat holes. You're here because the Donkeycrats screwed those places up so bad that property taxes, income taxes, and business taxes made it too expensive to start or grow businesses on the one hand and on the other it made the cost of living there undesireable. That doesn't even touch the regulatory burden imposed on the productive/private sector. Why the hell do you people want to import YOUR mistakes to the South? If you want that kind of government, please, let me point out to you that I-95 can take you back north just as well as it took you economic REFUGEES South.

Is that what you want?

Cary and east Raleigh are apples and oranges. The Cary city council didn't "save" us from looking like Capital Boulevard. Why does government get credit for everything and anything with you folks? Are you so sure that the deviation in real estate valuations between the two locations might, just might, have something to do with it Kelly?

[kellyc]

People do laugh at the regulations in Cary, but the people who live here seem to appreciate them. I dont think you will find a single road in Cary that looks like Capital Blvd or New Bern Avenue. Is that what you want?

Kelly

You are "sorta" right. While we don't have a capital Blvd., We do have our own disaster called Crossroads. And with more commercial and building on the way, it's gonna get worse.

Crossroads is bad, but in my eyes its not even in the same ball park as capital blvd. But I come from Greensboror, where most streets are like capital blvd.

[kellyc]

He cant go whack the budget in his first year. That would border on stupidity.

Why? What do you find so offensive about NOT spending the soon to be half a million bucks on those gawdawful metallic trees for that public "art" project? Why would it be 'stupid' to NOT waste that money on that trash?


Because he already has people freaking over the cuts to fees. Its also Ernie's first experience with the budget. I dont see him being a rash person, and making rash decisions. He's going to get himself up to speed. If he were to slash the budget after only a few months as Mayor, the finger point and screaming would become obnoxious. I would expect that the budget next year will get some more whacks to it, however with 3 council folks up for re-election it wont be as bad as it could be. Besides as has been pointed out, Ernie needs 3 people to vote along with his budget cuts, and with 2 of his possible allies up for re-election, I dont see that happening. Ernie has never seemed to be rash to me...I dont see him ever making rash decisions, including with the budget.



So obviously there are some people who arent laughing at the "nuts" in town hall.

Some. Have you ever stopped to ponder the cost increase we drop on ourselves by voting people like Nels onto the city council?

Wait a minute, is it Nels you cant stand or is it Ernie you cant stand? I think having people on opposite ends of the political spectrum is necessary to the town council. I dont want a bunch of Ernie or Julie puppets on the council. If people didnt agree with Nels, then he wont get re-elected. If they dont like the standards Cary has, I dont see anyone forcing them to remain Cary home or business owners.

I also think the council folks/planning department have saved us from being a capital blvd. You dont think Kildair Farm Road would look like Capital Blvd without the ordinances our council/planning department has in place?

Kelly

[johnb]

Disappointed in Ernie.....Nels I expect to be a one man political freak show. I can't be disappointed in him. I expect leftist wing nuts to be leftist wing nuts. When they behave true to form what disappointment could there be?

It's not that I "can't stand" Ernie, I'm bothered that he isn't being more assertive in acting on the mandate he was granted at the polls.

[kellyc]

I dont see Ernie being too much more assertive for this year or next (because of the election). But the year after that I expect to see some serious whacking if growth stays at similar levels and the possibility of raising taxes rears its ugly head.

Nels is a good guy, who believes in what he is doing (some of which I believe in, some of which I dont). He's not a political freak show, he just has his own way of going about things. As far as true liberals go, hes not all that bad. Im sure there could be a lot worse of a liberal council person to have than Nels. Like me, who would open a dog park right beside Johns house and encourage poop disposal in his yard. Just kidding :-)


Kelly

[johnb]

I sense a control freak there Kelly, whether he means well or ill is immaterial. He doesn't seem willing to leave others the heck alone. If a restraunt owner wants to allow smoking that is his business, not Shoeboy's.

[TJ]

I never suggested that you were unduly influential Stan, just
persistent and invariably cranky. How Nelson Dollar got into the
exchange is something you'll have to explain since he was not
a part of the original exchange. As to "Republicans", I am again
at a loss to understand why you tossed that general description
into the mix unless it was to confuse the issue. I am an
independent, have been for several years and there was
nothing "Republican" about my comments. Tossing Jack Smith
in there like that was your attempt, I assume, to say that
Jack Smith has no spine and, since he apparently is not on
your favored list, is to be discounted? When you believed him to be
a sure vote for Lang, whom you avidly touted at the time, he
passed muster. How soon we forget.

[kellyc]

I sense a control freak there Kelly, whether he means well or ill is immaterial. He doesn't seem willing to leave others the heck alone. If a restraunt owner wants to allow smoking that is his business, not Shoeboy's.

I wouldnt call Nels a control freak. I am pretty sure I remember him talking about how he thought that the building color ordinance was too strict. I think he was cool with the Neon signs downtown (Im sure Don will correct me on that). He just has a personal grief with smoking.

I suspect you are going to see Nels change a lot in the next few months. He and his wife are expecting a baby next month, and we all know that kids have a dramatic impact on the way you view life. He may be one of the more intresting people on the council.

Kelly

[Don]

I wouldnt call Nels a control freak. I am pretty sure I remember him talking about how he thought that the building color ordinance was too strict. I think he was cool with the Neon signs downtown (Im sure Don will correct me on that). He just has a personal grief with smoking.

No need for correction on the signage issue. Nels seems to support the local businesses desire to have a lighted sign (as long as it doesnt exceed two square feet or roughly the size of a frisbee) As far as the color issue, let's just say the owner of the Pink Business did NOT feel like Nels was supportive in her desire to want to paint her business pink, or at least the shade she wanted. In fact, He showed up with two samples of.....drumroll please...........BEIGE to look at.


I suspect you are going to see Nels change a lot in the next few months. He and his wife are expecting a baby next month, and we all know that kids have a dramatic impact on the way you view life. He may be one of the more intresting people on the council.

hee hee hee........ :wink:

Kelly[/quote]

[Brent]

Cary and east Raleigh are apples and oranges. The Cary city council didn't "save" us from looking like Capital Boulevard. Why does government get credit for everything and anything with you folks? Are you so sure that the deviation in real estate valuations between the two locations might, just might, have something to do with it Kelly?

Um, I think the municipal governments decided what sorts of development they would allow. Raleigh allowed Capital Blvd. and Cary didn't. How do you think the difference came about, John?

I think the difference in real estate values is a result, not a contributing factor.

[Brent]

Like me, who would open a dog park right beside Johns house and encourage poop disposal in his yard. Just kidding :-)


Kelly

Vote for Kelly! :lol:

[johnb]

He may change dramatically....either that or he'll demand the baby barf in beige as well.

[johnb]

TJ,

You seem to have noticed Stan's Messiah complex. Lang was his ticket to political Salvation 5 years ago. Stan refused to see Lang's warts and in fact participated in an illegal campaign financing scheme in support of Lang. When Stan finally saw the Lang the rest of us saw he turned on him. That let down must have been hard. He was caught up in the JULIEFORCARY! cult next. I don't understand the need to have some politician/messiah figure to rush the barricades for. When they prove themselves crass, exploitable, and corrupted in ways that compromise Stan's goals it must be tough on the ol' self-esteem. Fooled again! LOL

[Brent]

So, at last night's council meeting, in discussing whether or not to allow a tiny little lighted "open" sign in the windows of businesses downtown, Nels & Julie noted that the business owners had asked for this, to help their businesses, and they were inclined to let them do it.

Jack & Jennifer noted that, well, they just personally didn't care for lighted signs themselves.

Jennifer made the motion to deny the request, and that motion passed, 4-3. Meaning no lighted signs for businesses downtown.

So who are the "control freaks" here?

[johnb]

Jack and Jennifer and too a lesser extent every other council critter that didn't question why such an asinine regulation exists in the first place.

What gets me is that it is irrelevant what the hell Jack and Jennifer like or don't like. If they don't want Frantz automotive to have some gawdawful tacky illuminated "we're open" sign, they shouldn't patronize the place. Otherwise they need to shut the hell up and let the business owners alone.

Shoeboy and JULIEFORCARY! got burned in the last election, one lost and the other came within a whisker of loosing. They have little political capital to burn right now.

Those 4, I would classify as control freaks. Wanna be totalitarians. They want the unmitigated right to control other people's lives to the point where they dictate decorations and colors on private businesses. Incredible! To quote Bob Dole, "Where's the outrage?"

[Brent]

What gets me is that it is irrelevant what the hell Jack and Jennifer like or don't like. If they don't want Frantz automotive to have some gawdawful tacky illuminated "we're open" sign, they shouldn't patronize the place. Otherwise they need to shut the hell up and let the business owners alone.

John, I agree with you about this.

And I guess we'll need to include the others who voted for the motion (against the signs) on the list, too (if I'm not mistaken, that was Marla and Ernie).

[johnb]

That can be explained Brent: the RINO wouldn't want any business owner to deploy an illuminated sign that might clash with her eye shadow. McMayor, I don't know yet....I've got a hunch but I need to chat with some folks first.

So far I am decidedly underwhelmed with his record.

[Cathy]

That can be explained Brent: the RINO wouldn't want any business owner to deploy an illuminated sign that might clash with her eye shadow. McMayor, I don't know yet....I've got a hunch but I need to chat with some folks first.

So far I am decidedly underwhelmed with his record.

Please do find out something. I can't understand AT ALL why Ernie would vote with the HOA minded crowd on this one.

Cathy

[Brent]

I don't see this as an "HOA-minded crowd" issue at all.

Indeed, some of those who consistently support neighborhoods and homeowners voted to allow the signs.

Some of the supposed "pro-business" bloc were the ones who killed it.

[Cathy]

I don't see this as an "HOA-minded crowd" issue at all.

Indeed, some of those who consistently support neighborhoods and homeowners voted to allow the signs.

Some of the supposed "pro-business" bloc were the ones who killed it.

Brent,

What I meant by "HOA minded" crowd is that some of the Council members try to make decisions about the Town governance like they are running a great big Homeowner's Association. What may be appropriate for a HOA is not the way to govern a municipality. Leave the "nit-picky" appearance decisions to HOA's, town governance should focus on the infrastructure needs of the citizens.
When the Town ordinances get in the way of the downtown merchants best judgements about what their businesses' may need to improve their market share, the ordinances have gone too far.

Cathy

[Brent]

When the Town ordinances get in the way of the downtown merchants best judgements about what their businesses' may need to improve their market share, the ordinances have gone too far.
Cathy

Agreed. And this happened long ago, and the attempt to correct it was only partially successful, with a majority of Council drawing the line at little white lights around business windows (oh, how awful!) and lighted signs that would allow a business to advertise the fact that they are open for business (can you imagine such a thing?).

[johnb]

Some of the supposed "pro-business" bloc were the ones who killed it.

That is what I'm thinking. Some of the folks at the Chamber of Commerce may find it useful to use gov't to put the squeeze on competitors. Some of the biggest fans of government regulations and restrictions are established businesses. If they can get gov't to put roadblocks in front of start up businesses/competitors it allows them to keep prices artificially high and quality lower than they would otherwise be compelled to do.

It would be in the best interests of Hendricks and Leith to make it more difficult for Frantz and other Independent garage owners to attract customers.

I'm not saying those two firms had anything to do with this decision, just using that as an example.