New Convention Center

[Wuptdo]

Just a quick poll on what you all think of this new convention center the N&O and the Raleigh City Council want built (with our county tax dollars). :o)

[Cathy]

The Convention Center was previously voted down by the citizens. The "powers that be" decided they know best and found a way around the citizens.
With so many other Convention Centers struggling to survive in cities with a much more attractive draw, this RCC is going to be a BAD joke.
It's going to be a hard sell to conventioneers. We'll have to give it away to get people here.
This area may be a great place to live, but it hardly qualifies as a tourist attraction, and that's what most conference go-ers want as a bonus to their convention.

[Brent]

Right on, Cathy.

Note also that we have to subsidize the accompanying hotel -- another indication that this whole project will be a wasteful money pit.

[Cathy]

Right on, Cathy.

Note also that we have to subsidize the accompanying hotel -- another indication that this whole project will be a wasteful money pit.

VERY good additional point!!!

If market forces were driving these decisions instead of urban planners, our politicians wouldn't be approving this kind of stuff.
Urban planners SHOULD be required to take business courses and real estate courses, just like Chris Sinclair stated in his presentation to the conference!

[kellyc]

I have yet to figure out what is wrong with the old one

[Cathy]

"I think we have more machinery of government than is necessary, too many parasites living on the labor of the industrious."

Thomas Jefferson, letter to William Ludlow
September 6, 1824

(kinda says it all for me on any number of issues discussed here.)

[kellyc]

Cathy I think that kind of happens everywhere in life.

Kelly

[Cathy]

So.....does that mean we just accept it and let it continue unchecked?

[kellyc]

No, I just think its a fact of life, in politics, in government, or at work. It's there to be discovered.

[Cathy]

"There are few areas of government abuse that infuriate me more than does spending on the so-called 'arts.' In one of the most incredible scams ever perpetrated on the American taxpayer, tens of thousands of marginal artists across the country have discovered a way to use the police power of government to compensate for the lack of actual marketable artistic skills. ... The general philosophy here is that if you cannot get the uncultured great unwashed to purchase your works of art in a free market, then you just get the government to seize taxpayer funds to buy your valued works anyway. ... To show you how I can see both sides of an issue, I can give you at least one example of how government spending on the arts benefits the public. It helps us locate local government offices. If you're driving down the road looking for a government office -- a county annex, for instance -- just keep your eyes open for ugly sculpture. If you see some sculpture that causes you to say 'Who in the hell would pay good money for a piece of junk like that?' turn in. That's the government office you're looking for. Every time a politician votes to dump a load of taxpayer money into the artistic community, that politician is telling you and every other taxpayer that it is his considered opinion that the government needs that money to spend on the arts community more than you need it to spend on such things as health care, home payments, debt reduction and your children's education. Unbridled arrogance." --Neal Boortz

[Wuptdo]

That government is or ought to be instituted for the common benefit, protection, and security of the people, nation or community; of all the various modes and forms of government, that is best which is capable of producing the greatest degree of happiness and safety, and is most effectually secured against the danger of mal-administration, and that whenever any government shall be found inadequate, or contrary to these purposes, a majority of the community hath an indubitable, unalienable, and indefeasible right to reform, alter or abolish it in such a manner as shall be judged most conducive to the weal.
George Mason (1776)




A government which robs Peter to pay Paul can always depend on the support of Paul.
George B. Shaw (1944)

[Mark]

Cathy, fyi funding for the NEA runs something on the order of 100 million a year - state and local government contribute a roughly equal amount to arts support according to many estimates, though I'm not sure anyone really knows.

200 million dollars of taxpayer supported art in total.

Nearly equivalent to two days of occupation in Iraq.
Only about twice what KBR overcharged taxpayers for Kuwaiti gas.
About half of the taxpayer funded bailout of MCI

I wonder what North Carolina specifically spends? Or how that compares to the incentives package offered to Boeing, or what was given to Fedex several years back?

Anyway, the arts should be far down on your list of worries.

[Brent]

200 million dollars of taxpayer supported art in total.

The fact that it is a relatively "small" (in terms of total expenditures) amount doesn't justify the expenditure.


Anyway, the arts should be far down on your list of worries.

They are far down on my list of concerns. I'd rather spend the money on something closer to the top of my list. Say, 2000 new public safety officers.

[Don]

"200 million dollars of taxpayer supported art in total.

Nearly equivalent to two days of occupation in Iraq.
Only about twice what KBR overcharged taxpayers for Kuwaiti gas.
About half of the taxpayer funded bailout of MCI

I wonder what North Carolina specifically spends? Or how that compares to the incentives package offered to Boeing, or what was given to Fedex several years back?

Anyway, the arts should be far down on your list of worries."

Compare apples to apples please. How many jobs did the incentives package create? How much in taxes was brought back to the municipality as a result of the incentives packages? When having the choice between creating REAL jobs and revenue, or funding art or the artists, there is NO comparison. What revenue, jobs, or other economic development did funding art create?

I would have to agree with Brent and Cathy, just because the expenditure is small in the grand scheme of things, doesn't make it right. There need to be priorities. But I guess it depends on what YOUR priorities are.

[Cathy]

That government is or ought to be instituted for the common benefit, protection, and security of the people, nation or community; of all the various modes and forms of government, that is best which is capable of producing the greatest degree of happiness and safety, and is most effectually secured against the danger of mal-administration, and that whenever any government shall be found inadequate, or contrary to these purposes, a majority of the community hath an indubitable, unalienable, and indefeasible right to reform, alter or abolish it in such a manner as shall be judged most conducive to the weal.
George Mason (1776)




A government which robs Peter to pay Paul can always depend on the support of Paul.
George B. Shaw (1944)


A BIG AMEN from me on that!!

[Cathy]

Cathy, fyi funding for the NEA runs something on the order of 100 million a year - state and local government contribute a roughly equal amount to arts support according to many estimates, though I'm not sure anyone really knows.

200 million dollars of taxpayer supported art in total.

Nearly equivalent to two days of occupation in Iraq.
Only about twice what KBR overcharged taxpayers for Kuwaiti gas.
About half of the taxpayer funded bailout of MCI

I wonder what North Carolina specifically spends? Or how that compares to the incentives package offered to Boeing, or what was given to Fedex several years back?

Anyway, the arts should be far down on your list of worries.

I didn't like the Savings & Loan debacle we paid for either, but pointing out all of the "worries" of the anti-Bush campaigners does not make it okay to waste money on some other stupid scheme.

Let's take the problem back down to our own backyard, Mark, and clean up our own local mess where we are more likely to have an impact, instead of escalating the discussion to national problems with policy that we are far removed from changing at the moment. I'd rather focus on local issues than do nothing but bash Bush policy and wring our collective hands.

And what you said, Don..

[Wuptdo]

Wonder if I should try to get on the Cary Arts Council. My taste in art is just a bad as anyone else's.

Thinking about artist, I was just out in Sedona, AZ last week. The Wife and I went all over NW Az; looking for great buys in native American art. We didn't find any we like and for that matter, afford. Trust me on this one, there are no starving artist living in NW Arizona. We did find a nice piece from a artist who died several years ago - Eyvind Earle.

Wuptdo

"Art, unless it leads to right action, is no more than the opium of an intelligentsia"
W. Somerset Maugham (1949)

[Brent]

I would have to agree with Brent and Cathy...

Don, are you sure you want to do that? :lol:

[Cathy]

I would have to agree with Brent and Cathy...

Don, are you sure you want to do that? :lol:

Is it even possible???