Should the 19th Amendment be repealed?

[Wuptdo]

Starting this separate thread based on Holly's advice.

Please check out this website first before voting:

http://christianparty.net/19th.htm

Thoughts and comments?

Wuptdo B-)

[Don]

This has to be the biggest load of sh!t I have ever read from you Wup. Get real man.

[Cathy]

Wuptdo,

You can't be serious.

Perhaps we never should have changed the requirement for land ownership to gain voting rights. That may be the real cause behind all of the "handout" crowd problems. People who don't own land are a transient bunch with no stake in the long term problems caused by the financial incontinence on the part of politicians.

Cathy

[dhyatt]

Uh ... I'm not quite sure what to make of this but as for me, I think the country would probably be a bit better off if it was run by conservative women. A womans right to vote is one of the important things that separate us from the Islamic states in the world and I want to stay as far away from them as possible!

I'm kind of surprised this even warrants discussion. I don't even see where the 'men should shoulder their reponsibility for the family blah, blah, blah' even plays into this. The two are totally separate issues as far as I'm concerned.

[Wuptdo]

DonF - even bigger than this?

http://www.johnkerry.com/index.html

or this?

http://www.educate-yourself.org/nwo/

Don't shoot the messenger. Actually, take some time and read the data. I found it very educational and supports some data collecting I have done in the past. Yes, I know it is not very "PC" for some, but for others it presents and excellent opportunity for debate and exchange of ideas.

Kathy - Agreed, if your not on the "taxrolls" you shouldn't be able to vote. Also, if you are drawing any type of "support" from the Government you should be disqualified from voting as well. Responsible Citizens will vote responability.

Wuptdo B-)

[johnb]

Wup,

You are violating the first law of holes, when you're in one, quit digging.

john

[hollyL]

Thoughts and comments?
Wuptdo B-)

Woman have never been in power in this country and they certainly aren't today either:
Senate seats 14 (14%)
House of Representatives 63 (14%)
Governors 8 (16%)

Not to mention women's voter turnout didn't exceed males until the mid 70's and now does only by a few percentage points.

Sooooo...it seems to me that the *only* people that could have messed it up is the men - white men to be exact. So even if one were to entertain this completely ridiculous idea I have no idea how it could possibly solve our problems since woman are clearly not in any position of power. Actually, it would make it worse since "the man" would be running everything. Seems to me the only solution is to take away the man's vote :wink:

"I do think that women can make politics irrelevant by a kind of spontaneous co-operative action, the likes of which we have never seen. That is just so far from peoples ideas of state structure and viable social structure that it seems to them like total anarchy. When what it really is, is very subtle forms of inter-relation, which do not follow hierarchical patterns which are fundamentally patriarchal. The opposite of matriarchy is not partriarchy but fraternity. And I think it is women who are going to have to break this vial of power and find the trick to co-operation."
- Germaine Greer

[kellyc]

Personally I think we should take away a Man's right to vote. I mean lets face it...who has caused all of our problems in this country....Men.

Kelly

[johnb]

You're both full of $hit.

This is the most free nation in the world because of a bunch of "white guys".

Almost all of the inventions and discoveries that have advanced civilization and added to our material comforts were made by "white guys".

The Constitution, the light bulb, the integrated circuit, the rule of law, advances in agriculture, medicine, and the advance of science and even higher education itself are part and parcel of the heritage of "white guys".

If you *REALLY* feel you're burdened by living in such a hell hole you are free to go elsewhere. Nepal, Rwanda, and Pakistan all come to mind as possible alternatives. Of course, having witch doctors the only option for "health care", a totalitarian political system, and enforced cultural norms prohibiting female literacy might not be your cup of tea.

:twisted:

[hollyL]

I think Wuptdo's point was things are messed up because woman have the right to vote. *HE* said it was screwed up - not us - so I'm just explaining why :-D

You wanna except the glory of the "Constitution, the light bulb, the integrated circuit, the rule of law, advances in agriculture, medicine, and the advance of science and even higher education" then you have the take the blame for what is wrong. Wuptdo wasn't specific about what great perils the women's vote has caused our country so he'll have to answer that one.

[kellyc]

You're both full of $hit.

This is the most free nation in the world because of a bunch of "white guys".

Almost all of the inventions and discoveries that have advanced civilization and added to our material comforts were made by "white guys".

:twisted:

Wouldnt any of these guys have been here/there without a woman.

Kelly

[hollyL]

Wouldnt any of these guys have been here/there without a woman.
Kelly

Yeah! If you are so smart figure out a way to give birth without us! :~D Now that would be an invention!

[Cathy]

Yes_ at the very least, let's not forget Abigail Adams and how much John Adams depended on her thoughts and opinion.

Cathy

[johnb]

Oh good gawd....yes and Crispus Attucks won the Revolutionary War all by himself....and this country wouldn't be the same without the "contributions" of one legged blind Basque goat herders....

:twisted:

[Wuptdo]

People, People, no reason to be name calling and such. "To be or not to be, that is the question, is it nobler in mind to suffer the slings and arrows...."

For some, this seem to be a "upsetting" topic, but sometimes you have to pick at the scab to get to the truth. Several good points made across the board.

Don H wrote:


I think the country would probably be a bit better off if it was run by conservative women.

Agreed, however, for every Libby Dole and Anne Coulter, there are 10 Hillary Clintons & Rosey O'Donnells. How do we ensure that women who think with their reproductive organs are kept out of office?

HollyL wrote:


think Wuptdo's point was things are messed up because woman have the right to vote. *HE* said it was screwed up - not us - so I'm just explaining why


Holly, my dear, I would just about have to write a book. But a few things come to mind as major "let's make the womenfolk happy" events in this country since you all go the right to vote. 1) 20th Amendment, 2) FDR and all his socialist programs, 3) Medicare, 4) Medicade, 5) HUD, 6) federal welfare, 7) WIC, 8) food stamps, 9) Title IV, and 10) Free & Reduced Lunch. Ok, I know it a broad stroke of the brush, but do think for a moment that any of these "social" welfare programs would of ever gotten thru Congress if women didn't vote?

Also, Holly, this is before your time, but Kelly or Cathy should know about this - the ERA amendment. Whatever happened to that?

But what set me off today was watching two voting age California girls on one of the 24 hours news channels (or maybe MTV/VH-1) talking about voting for Kerry because "Johnny-boy" was so good looking. Plus one of my peacher friends sent me the e-mail with the below listed website:

http://christianparty.net/19th.htm

There is a word when two independant things collide to cause a chain reaction. Also, without expressing into words, I feel that our once great country is on the verge of a moral collapse. Therefore, I believe we should turn back the clock and go back to the values we had at the turn of the 20th century.

Johnb - I believe there are two things that made our young America great: "White Men & Christianity!" Amen!

Wuptdo B-)


Darn, this well is getting deep, I can't see the light from above.

[hollyL]

Holly, my dear, I would just about have to write a book. But a few things come to mind as major "let's make the womenfolk happy" events in this country since you all go the right to vote. 1) 20th Amendment, 2) FDR and all his socialist programs, 3) Medicare, 4) Medicade, 5) HUD, 6) federal welfare, 7) WIC, 8) food stamps, 9) Title IV, and 10) Free & Reduced Lunch. Ok, I know it a broad stroke of the brush, but do think for a moment that any of these "social" welfare programs would of ever gotten thru Congress if women didn't vote?

HOW DID WOMEN GOT THE RIGHT TO VOTE? MEN - AND ONLY MEN - HAD TO VOTE FOR IT! Not all men are walking around like arragant pigs demanding all women and minorities serve them.

You are really making no sense. Men voted these programs in, not women There is NO way that you can possibly put the blame on a group of people who have vitually no votes in the house/senate during those times. I'd like to say good try but it really isn't. Why don't you blame it on frogs or something cuz that is just a far more crazy.

List the names of the majority of the house/senate that passed these bills that were women. Good luck on that one.



Also, Holly, this is before your time, but Kelly or Cathy should know about this - the ERA amendment. Whatever happened to that?

How do you know how old I am? You've insulted one or all of us here...not sure which.


Therefore, I believe we should turn back the clock and go back to the values we had at the turn of the 20th century.

Delete the civil rights movement? Brillant idea. You've got to be joking about this.

The path toward 'evil equality' is one that can only progress forward - like it or not.

[Brent]

But what set me off today was watching two voting age California girls on one of the 24 hours news channels (or maybe MTV/VH-1) talking about voting for Kerry because "Johnny-boy" was so good looking.

Wup,

Ill-informed voters are not gender-specific.

I'm afraid you've hit the point of no return here (take John's advice and quit digging).

There goes your campaign for mayor! :wink:

[johnb]

Mayor? Hell there's gonna gonna be a lynch mob of "offended persons of non-specific gender and orientation" at his front door real soon.

[kellyc]

People,

Agreed, however, for every Libby Dole and Anne Coulter, there are 10 Hillary Clintons & Rosey O'Donnells. How do we ensure that women who think with their reproductive organs are kept out of office?


How do we ensure that men who think with their reproductive organs are kept out of office?

[Anonymous]

How do we ensure that men who think with their reproductive organs are kept out of office?

Maybe some sort of hormone therapy can keep the testosterone from making male office-holders crazy every 28 minutes.

[Wuptdo]

Holly wrote:


You are really making no sense. Men voted these programs in, not women There is NO way that you can possibly put the blame on a group of people who have vitually no votes in the house/senate during those times.

First off, you are correct, it was men who actually voted on, and passed these various federal programs. However, in most cases, I am willing to bet various women's groups used their local influence on their elected officials to get these bills thru congress. Also, at certain points in time, Congress had a large number of "girly-men," i.e., liberal democrats in control. FDR was the first president to actually go after the women's vote,
i.e., originally Social Security was passed as a "Widow's Bill." Interesting history behind all these bills.


Wuptdo wrote:

Also, Holly, this is before your time, but Kelly or Cathy should know about this - the ERA amendment. Whatever happened to that?


How do you know how old I am? You've insulted one or all of us here...not sure which.



I have met Kelly and Cathy, and based on the picture you posted I assumed you were a "20 something." Your picture in the paper was a long shot. Beside, personnal attacks and insulting people is not my thing. Trying to get people in engage in "honest" dyad is.

JohnB - I was prepared for Y2K and I am ready now.

Wuptdo B-)

[johnb]

Every 28 minutes???










Slackers.

[kellyc]

28 minutes...is that the best you guys can do?

Kelly

[dhyatt]

It's definitely not safe to comment on this topic any further, however I will contribute the following:

http://www.spectator.org/dsp_article.asp?art_id=7014

[hollyL]

I have met Kelly and Cathy, and based on the picture you posted I assumed you were a "20 something."
Wuptdo B-)

I've changed the names to protect the innocent.

"Sara and Sue remember historic event and Holly doesn't"

Actual ages Sara 40 - Sue 32 - Holly 35
Sue is mad because Holly is older than her and you think Holly looks younger. Society says youth="good/beauty (but inexperienced, dumb)" old="ugly (but wise)".
Sara is mad because Holly is only 5 years younger than her but she's portrayed as a lot **** older.
Holly is mad because she is disrespected by implying that she isn't older and wiser.

This difference of only a few years is the most serious insult. If this happens I would recommend protecting private parts and areas of the body that are important to survival (i.e. where you brain is). I'd also grab the spare pillow because your wife will not appreciate you calling another woman good looking therefore resulting in a sleepless night on the couch.

Sara 30 - Sue 30 - Holly 30
Sara/Sue pisd because you say Holly looks younger.

Sara 50 - Sue 40 - Holly 25
Holly pisd because you are implying that she isn't as wise as Sara and Sue because they are older therefore making her statement less valid.

Sara 80 - Sue 80 - Holly < 30
This is the only time I can see guess would be OK. Sara and Sue too old to be pisd.

This is of course only a a brief representation of the possible disastrous senario which could happen.

So now that you have read this...I am not in the 20s...how old am I?

:-D

[dhyatt]

I have met Kelly and Cathy, and based on the picture you posted I assumed you were a "20 something."
Wuptdo B-)

[snip]
So now that you have read this...I am not in the 20s...how old am I?

:-D

Don't answer!!! It's a trap!!! ;-)


030774

[hollyL]

Cheaters! X-(

[dhyatt]

Cheaters! X-(

You don't look a day over 25 ;-) Besides, you're not mesa-ing with amateurs here! :-)

[johnb]

Actual ages Sara 40 - Sue 32 - Holly 35
Sue is mad because Holly is older than her and you think Holly looks younger. Society says youth="good/beauty (but inexperienced, dumb)" old="ugly (but wise)".
Sara is mad because Holly is only 5 years younger than her but she's portrayed as a lot **** older.
Holly is mad because she is disrespected by implying that she isn't older and wiser.

Wup, you're married. Don't you know the answer here? You can't win. You loose. You know what the robot would say: Danger Will Robinson Danger!

[kellyc]

So now that you have read this...I am not in the 20s...how old am I?

:-D


Are you 65???????

[Cathy]

I don't want to interrupt your fun, but I'd like to make a comment to Wup in reference to his original posting on this thread.

Wup,
In your post, you referred us to a website that was evidently a "Christian" website that believes that woman should not be voting. The site quotes Genesis 3:16 in the header for their 'Biblical backing'.

Some points to consider:

The Bible is an ongoing story about the relationship between God and mankind, or human beings if you like. The story unfolds and relationship evolves over time.
It could be divided into three phases:
Pre-First Covenant
First Covenant
New Covenant

Living our lives under an edict from the Adam & Eve fiasco ignores all that God has done for us since. In this quote, God was basically 'telling them like it is' "You broke the contract folks_life is not going to be pretty under your new boss. You'll be living under the curse of his influence".

The Old Covenant was God's attempt to give people a "plan" or "rules to live by" that would raise them above the affects of this cursed boss.
The "plan" had little leniency and ended up showing us how weak we humans are.

The New Covenant came along to rescue us from our weakness, and this is the "contract" that Christians are supposed to be living.

In that New Contract I am told that:

"You are all sons of God through Jesus Christ, for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ.
There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.
If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham's seed, and heirs to the promise." [Galatians 3:26-29]

The promise to Abraham included deliverance from the curse of the law and sin.

This website does a disfavor to true Christianity, and disseminating the hoo-ey they are using to justify repeal of the 19th Amendment does the same.

No offense meant Wup, but you wanted to stir the pot, so I hope that you are ready to receive the responses.

Cathy

[Don]

Holly wrote:


You are really making no sense. Men voted these programs in, not women There is NO way that you can possibly put the blame on a group of people who have vitually no votes in the house/senate during those times.

First off, you are correct, it was men who actually voted on, and passed these various federal programs. However, in most cases, I am willing to bet various women's groups used their local influence on their elected officials to get these bills thru congress. Also, at certain points in time, Congress had a large number of "girly-men," i.e., liberal democrats in control. FDR was the first president to actually go after the women's vote,
i.e., originally Social Security was passed as a "Widow's Bill." Interesting history behind all these bills.



What a pompous, arrogant fool you are Wup. Maybe, just maybe the elected officials realized that prohibiting women from voting was just plain wrong? Tell us more about your research please. You're making a lot of friends right now.

I am with Hyatt, I would trust this country to a conservative woman over a man any day.

How soon till you move to the Middle East? Obviously you don't like living in Cary or in a country where women can vote, have rights, etc......

BYE!

[Wuptdo]

Holly - Good one! :wink:

Cathy - I'm impressed. Two things: Which Bible/religion? and, Who is Lilith?

Don- Who pee'd in your Cheerios' today? 8-O

Brent - No way! Water Conservation Board is the way to go! :roll:

It has been "real" people, but now have new windmills to tend too. :)>-

Wuptdo B-)

Socrates was sentanced to death for (unmentionable & disgusting) and asking questions that made people think

[Cathy]

Cathy - I'm impressed. Two things: Which Bible/religion? and, Who is Lilith?

Wuptdo B-)

The same "bible/religion" that the website that you reference is using, obviously.

Your question would be better put as "What is Lilith?".

Answer: The "lilith" is a female demon whose haunt was desert places.
The name comes from Sumerian 'lil', meaning "wind" or "spirit".

The terms satyr and/or goat in Isaiah 34 is understood to be a 'lilith'.

The term is used again later in rabbinical lore as the female who deceived Adam.
( from the Jerome Biblical Commentary)

Were the rabbis referring to Eve? Or were they calling the demon in the Serpent a 'lilith' ? I don't know the answer to that one.

Cathy

[Don]

Don- Who pee'd in your Cheerios' today? 8-O

You did. This is stuff I would have expected to read elsewhere - not in a forum dedicated to "intelligent debate".... Starting a thread saying that women shouldn't be allowed to vote inspires no such debate.