The surge

[francejamie]

Which of the 18 pre-surge benchmarks have been achieved?

The Right likes to crow about how successful it's been, but on an objective measue, using Bush's own benchmarks, how successful is it?

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,288765,00.html

[francejamie]

I thought that, surely, among such an erudite group of people, someone would know which goals we have met, since everyone seems to think it has been successful.

[francejamie]

Excellent, since no one could give any of the objectives which were successful, I guess we must all be in agreement that the surge was not actually a success at what it was done to achieve. Sure, violence has decreased, but it was supposed to do a lot more than that.

[Dharma]

But there are comments, even new threads, when something minor happens to make this abortion in Iraq look good. And, the tone of those threads are clear to rub the opposition's nose in it.

[dhyatt]

Excellent, since no one could give any of the objectives which were successful, I guess we must all be in agreement that the surge was not actually a success at what it was done to achieve. Sure, violence has decreased, but it was supposed to do a lot more than that.

Jamie,
No on has responded because this was bait to be drawn into a discussion based on checkmarks and they only tell a small part of the turn around in Iraq. The most important benchmarks - far fewer deaths, putting Iraqi's in charge, dismantling the militias - have to a large extent either been met or are in the process of being met. The bureaucracy related ones have not yet been met but at least they are being worked on and that's a heck of a lot more than could be said before. The sad thing about Iraq is that if McCain had been listened too from the beginning, we could be 2-3 years ahead of where we are now.

[JoeCiulla]

Should we not believe Barack Obama when he says the surge succeeded beyond our "wildest dreams?"

[Icorpse]

Maybe he was being polite?

Are the effects of the surge sustainable or ultimately lead to a total collapse like what we are seeing now in Afghanistan?

[dhyatt]

Maybe he was being polite?

Are the effects of the surge sustainable or ultimately lead to a total collapse like what we are seeing now in Afghanistan?

hmm... I didn't know polite and CYA meant the same thing. Learn something new every day :-) I think a better question is whether or not any kind of a surge in Afghanistan would actually help. It might, but the terrain and the culture is quite different. IAfghanistan makes the tribal / religious differences in Iraq look like frat row. If we really want to crush the Taliban once and for all, we have to be willing to send troops into Pakistan and I don't see that happening so we could very easily wind up with a stalemate.

[francejamie]

Jamie,
No on has responded because this was bait to be drawn into a discussion based on checkmarks and they only tell a small part of the turn around in Iraq. The most important benchmarks - far fewer deaths, putting Iraqi's in charge, dismantling the militias - have to a large extent either been met or are in the process of being met. The bureaucracy related ones have not yet been met but at least they are being worked on and that's a heck of a lot more than could be said before. The sad thing about Iraq is that if McCain had been listened too from the beginning, we could be 2-3 years ahead of where we are now.

Hmmm, the surge decreased violence, so we will define victory as having decreased violence. Mission accomplished.
The purpose of the surge was to decrease violence to allow those benchmarks to be completed. Please tell me which of those benchmarks have been completed? Does anyone know?

Here's a good write from a few months ago
http://www.mcclatchydc.com/100/story/30998.html

None of those worthies took note, in their praise of the surge, about the failure of its main purpose. The surge was intended as a short-term escalation of troop strength to buy a bubble of better security so the Iraqi government and parliament could make progress toward reconciliation among its own warring, revenge-minded communities.