Ty Harrell - more of the sHame ???

[JoeCiulla]

McCain has taken a pretty good beating for his record of voting 90% of the time with Bush, oftentimes that figure is quoted when he's being described as McSame. Elizabeth Dole is getting hammered by her record of voting 92% of the time with Bush -- I love that commercial with the two old guys in rocking chairs.

In the last full NCGA session during which both Ty Harrell and Jim Black served concurrently, Ty Harrell voted with Jim Black 98.6% of the time. Sure some of these were roll call votes and other minutia, but we're talking over 1,800 votes.

Jim Black is emblematic of corruption in NC politics, what does it say when a representative votes along with him 98.6% of the time -- including voting to appoint Mr. Black as House Speaker?

About the nicest explanation I can come up with is that Mr. Harrell is a loyal party guy who votes the way his party leaders tell him to. This would mean he is not at all corrupt, but calls into serious question how well he represents the unique interests of District 41 versus the interests of the Democratic party.

One well-known example of this conflict is Mr. Harrell's lack of support for legislation which would allow at-large elections of School Board members. The overwhelming majority of people I've talked to in our district are fed up with school leadership and want at-large elections. In this case, Mr. Harrell puts party ahead of people. He's tried to cover his bases with "District Dialogs" but has failed to show "District Action."

I don't have the time to check the voting records of the remaining Status-Quo-Seven members, but I'd be willing to bet they are nearly the same. And hopefully they will all answer for it come November.

[MattD]

Joe - this entire post is wrong, wrong, wrong, misleading and incorrect. Are you sure whoever gave you these talking points wasn't pulling your leg?


McCain has taken a pretty good beating for his record of voting 90% of the time with Bush, oftentimes that figure is quoted when he's being described as McSame. Elizabeth Dole is getting hammered by her record of voting 92% of the time with Bush
In the last full NCGA session during which both Ty Harrell and Jim Black served concurrently, Ty Harrell voted with Jim Black 98.6% of the time.

Ty was elected in the Fall of 2006 and sworn in for the start of the 2007 Legislative Session. Jim Black resigned from the General Assembly on February 14, 2007. So you are comparing a month's worth of voting to Bush/McCain/Dole's voting record over a 8 year period. REALLY????


Jim Black is emblematic of corruption in NC politics, what does it say when a representative votes along with him 98.6% of the time -- including voting to appoint Mr. Black as House Speaker?

This is wrong. Mr. Black didn't even run for House Speaker. Rep. Joe Hackney ran, and won. How could Mr. Harrell vote for someone who wasn't even running?


One well-known example of this conflict is Mr. Harrell's lack of support for legislation which would allow at-large elections of School Board members. The overwhelming majority of people I've talked to in our district are fed up with school leadership and want at-large elections.

While many people you have spoken to want at-large elections, the hard truth is the majority of the people in Wake County are not in favor of at-large elections.



In this case, Mr. Harrell puts party ahead of people. He's tried to cover his bases with "District Dialogs" but has failed to show "District Action."

He is meeting with the voters. He is meeting with the citizens. It's a lot more then Rep. Dollar or Sen Stevens has done.




I don't have the time to check the voting records of the remaining Status-Quo-Seven members, but I'd be willing to bet they are nearly the same. And hopefully they will all answer for it come November.
Hopefully you will check the records of the remaining members. Might I suggest you start with Rep. Dollar?


Joe - you may want to double check your facts on many of the issues listed above.

[JoeCiulla]

Matt,
Database malfunction on my part, and thanks for not jumping down my throat like others would have.

The correct number is Mr. Harrell voting with the Majority 97.5% of the time. That still makes him a follower, not a leader.

Ty has been meeting with and talking to voters about this issue for a long time, while Reps Dollar and Hunt have actually introduced legislation to address it -- that counts for more in my book.

People across Wake County may feel different, but I Know that the people of District 41 want at-large elections. On this issue, Mr. Harrell is putting party interests ahead of his constituents, and we should not stand for that.

[MattD]

Matt,
Database malfunction on my part, and thanks for not jumping down my throat like others would have.

The correct number is Mr. Harrell voting with the Majority 97.5% of the time. That still makes him a follower, not a leader.

Ty has been meeting with and talking to voters about this issue for a long time, while Reps Dollar and Hunt have actually introduced legislation to address it -- that counts for more in my book.

People across Wake County may feel different, but I Know that the people of District 41 want at-large elections. On this issue, Mr. Harrell is putting party interests ahead of his constituents, and we should not stand for that.

I live in District 41 and the vast majority of my neighbors in Amberly do not support at-large elections. So we will have to agree to disagree on this on.

Regarding the legislation that Rep Dollar/Hunt introduced, we have addressed this several times here on CP. I thought the proposed legislation was deemed illegal as a violoation of the Voting Act (or something like that). Even though Dollar/Hunt KNEW it would violate federal law, they still pushed it, trying to create a wedge issue. Talk about putting party interests ahead of the constituents.

Sorry I didn't jump down your throat. I'm must be slipping in my older years... ;-)

[CarpenterV]

ROTFLMAO, I just got mail from Harrel with his new cutsy little slogan - fighting for what matters to us.

I guess he thinks a new executive jet for his buddy Gov. Easley matters to me.

What matters to me is ONE BILLION dollars in new debt that he burdened us taxpayers with.

What matters to me is greater accountability for my school board (that 25 year old court decision is irrelevant, unless you think Wake County is the same place it was in the early 80's - Wake Up) that he's standing in the way of.

I can't wait to vote for "change that matters" in House District 41.

[johnshaw]

Joe,
I am surprised at your post, considering that you normally seem to be “committed to intelligent debate”. But there are always exceptions. This thread is one.

Regarding Rep. Ty Harrell voting the same as former Rep. Black, Matt seems to have cleared that up. But in case anyone does want to know about their voting records, Black’s voting record for 2007 can be found at: http://www.ncleg.net/gascripts/voteHistory/MemberVoteHistory.pl?sSession=2007&nMMUserID=4&sChamber=H

As can be seen, Black actually voted on two recorded votes. He voted for the temporary House rules and he voted for a resolution honoring Appalachian State’s football team after they won their second straight national championship. Ty Harrell voted the same way. I don’t think that either of these votes had anything to do with Black’s corruption.

Ty Harrell’s voting record can be found at: http://www.ncleg.net/gascripts/voteHistory/MemberVoteHistory.pl?sSession=2007&nMMUserID=569&sChamber=H

As can be seen, most of the votes are unanimous or close to unanimous. Typically, by the time a bill gets to the floor changes have been made, kinks have been worked out, and disagreements have been settled. Any member can be shown to have voted the same as any other member almost every time.

There are cases where Rep. Harrell voted differently from others in the leadership of his party. For example, look at HB878. Rep. Harrell voted against four amendments proposed by more senior members of his own party--in two cases voting against his party’s leader.

Another example is amendment 3 of HB898. Rep. Harrell voted for an amendment offered by a member of the other party while his own party leader voted the other way.


These are just two examples. I could point out other examples where Rep. Harrell voted against the way his party leader voted.

These are not the votes of a follower. Rep. Harrell has shown that he will break with party leadership and vote against the leadership when he does not agree.

Joe, perhaps Rep. Harrell did not vote the way you wanted on a particular issue, but many people in his district support his position. And those of us who look at the record appreciate a Representative who, even as a freshman member, is not afraid to vote against the leadership of his own party.

[JoeCiulla]

Joe, perhaps Rep. Harrell did not vote the way you wanted on a particular issue, but many people in his district support his position. And those of us who look at the record appreciate a Representative who, even as a freshman member, is not afraid to vote against the leadership of his own party.

John,

I already gave one mea culpa for my database error, here's another. An occasional vote against party lines doesn't constitute leadership in my mind.

For me, schools are not a "particular issue," they are THE issue. I expect the leaders representing me to advocate for my children's education. You know the politics in play here. Harold Weinbrecht and others in our Town Council had the courage to put at-large elections on the legislative agenda. I'm sure they caught flak from the Democratic party for it, but the put Cary citizens ahead of party.

Of the Status Quo Seven, Ty is one of the worst. The others took a position I didn't like, but at least they took a position. Ty had his District Dialog, he invited a NCAE member to do his dirty work for him, and had an NAACP Voting Rights Attorney to seal the deal. BTW, the attorney did not say in the meeting that at-large elections would violate the VRA. That Dialog occurred months ago. Since then, he as repeatedly dodged the question when asked whether he will support at-large or not.

Our Democratic Cary Town Council leaders had the courage to buck the party. The remaining Status Quo seven did not have the courage to buck the party, but at least had the courage to issue a position. Having Dialogs and playing both sides is not courageous, and does not reflect leadership.

John, I respect a lot that you do, but like Matt we will have to agree to disagree on this one.

[chaboard]

for it, but the put Cary citizens ahead of party.

You keep saying this, but I don't recall ever seeing even a hint of evidence to back it up.
What makes you think Cary citizens support your pet voting plan?

[JoeCiulla]

for it, but the put Cary citizens ahead of party.

You keep saying this, but I don't recall ever seeing even a hint of evidence to back it up.
What makes you think Cary citizens support your pet voting plan?

I never said pets should vote!

At-large elections are a different matter.

You have your opinion, I have mine, and neither of us has the money to go hire a polling company. But I am very comfortable in my assessment.

As already covered, I must run in different circles than you, because everyone I know in who has kids in the school system falls into one of two categories: They are disappointed by the school system and want new leadership via at-large elections, or they are satisfied with the system and don't have a strong opinion. Most people I know fall into the first category.

A boatload of Cary citizens showed up at the Town Council meeting on schools earlier this year. A number spoke out for at-large elections, none spoke against. I believe you would agree that the Town Council's legislative agenda was not consistent with the Democratic party's agenda regarding this matter, so clearly our town leaders felt comfortable that they were representing Cary citizens interests by supporting at-large.

I don't expect you to agree.

I can only hope that enough voters know when they go to the polls that a vote against the Status Quo Seven is a vote for more voice in schools.

[Brent]

for it, but the put Cary citizens ahead of party.

You keep saying this, but I don't recall ever seeing even a hint of evidence to back it up.
What makes you think Cary citizens support your pet voting plan?

The elected officials who represent those citizens voted to put "At large school board elections" on their legislative agenda.

[JoeCiulla]

By coincidence, my phone rang about a half hour ago with an automated invitation to join a Bryan Gossage telephone town hall. This is a pretty cool format. As of right now, there are 1,200 voters listening in, and he is taking questions.

And yes, he is taking (and answering) questions about at-large elections.

[chaboard]

for it, but the put Cary citizens ahead of party.

You keep saying this, but I don't recall ever seeing even a hint of evidence to back it up.
What makes you think Cary citizens support your pet voting plan?

The elected officials who represent those citizens voted to put "At large school board elections" on their legislative agenda.

Yeah, but I'm pretty sure THEY did that without any solid data on their constituents desires, too. I'm sure Don can set me straight if I'm wrong.

It's one thing to say you *think* Cary citizens *might* support it....it's quite another to flat-out say that someone is putting their constituents second just because they don't agree with YOU.

[johnshaw]

For me, schools are not a "particular issue," they are THE issue.

Joe,
I understand that schools are “THE issue” for you, but for our elected representatives it is one of the issues. It is important, but not the only issue.

Within the issue of schools, whether the school board is elected at large or by district is one of many “sub-issues”. I think that many people would consider matters like funding, teacher salaries, building construction, advance land purchase, etc. more important. And regarding school board elections, the people I talk to are divided.

Joe, if you had complained that Rep. Harrell voted against a bill that you supported, that would be one thing. There are many people who would agree with you; there are many in this house district that would not agree with you.

However, to say that a representative is a follower, unwilling to vote against the wishes of his party, is a different matter. I think that you and I agree on most matters, particularly regarding the leadership and direction of Cary. But regarding whether or not our representative is independent and thinks for himself rather than letting his party leadership think for him, we differ. The record shows that Rep. Harrell does vote independently of the party leadership.

To be represented by someone in the leadership of the House, we should reelect Ty Harrell. He is a freshman member but, as I have pointed out, has already shown that he can think – and vote – for himself. He has been ranked the most effective freshman representative by an independent group (http://www.wral.com/news/local/politics/story/2710564/). Next year, as a second term member, he will be more effective and well on his way to the leadership of the House.

I already gave one mea culpa for my database error… My purpose of commenting on your first post was for all of the lurkers here (and there are many) who read your first post but still might not understand the facts regarding former Rep. Black’s votes relating to other peoples votes.

I never said pets should vote! Why shouldn’t they?:) :D:D

[BR549]

A more thorough, honest, and non-slanted view of Rep. Harrell's record would note that he had had 80 PERCENT of the bills that he has sponsored attract Republican co-sponsors. And he's sponsored close to 200 bills.

This is a dramatic change from the previous Rep. Capps, who sponsored ONE bill in 12 years.

Not to mention the fact that Capps' effectiveness was ranked by his fellow legislators, lobbyists and staff (ie - the people who work on Jones St every day) at something like 117 out of 120.

Rep Harrell was ranked the MOST EFFECTIVE freshman,coming in somewhere in the mid 50's overall. So in just one cycle, the 41st district improved it's representation by 60-some odd spots.

THAT is how you get things done. You may agree or disagree with Rep. Harrell on the school board elections issue (and truly, I don't know his position, and don't have kids in schools) but that's just ONE issue. Voters should look at the overall picture.

[JoeCiulla]

and where do his kids go to school?

[MattD]

and where do his kids go to school?

I'm not sure where his kids go... my oldest goes to Mills Park.

[BR549]

^^ I dunno. I am reasonably certain I've heard him say that his kids go to public schools. But why don't you ask him yourself? He is really good about returning phone calls and emails, so you could easily find out if that really mattered to you.

Not sure what you were trying to imply with the question anyway.

[JoeCiulla]

^^ I dunno. I am reasonably certain I've heard him say that his kids go to public schools. But why don't you ask him yourself? He is really good about returning phone calls and emails, so you could easily find out if that really mattered to you.

Not sure what you were trying to imply with the question anyway.

BR,

My experience with responsiveness has been different, but that doesn't really matter at this point.

I sincerely hope his kids are in or headed for the public schools system. If not, then he should be prepared to explain why the school leaders we have are adequate for us, but not for him. I honestly don't know where his kids go to school.

See you out on the Apex message board!

[JoeCiulla]

A more thorough, honest, and non-slanted view of Rep. Harrell's record would note that he had had 80 PERCENT of the bills that he has sponsored attract Republican co-sponsors. And he's sponsored close to 200 bills.

This is a dramatic change from the previous Rep. Capps, who sponsored ONE bill in 12 years.

Not to mention the fact that Capps' effectiveness was ranked by his fellow legislators, lobbyists and staff (ie - the people who work on Jones St every day) at something like 117 out of 120.

Rep Harrell was ranked the MOST EFFECTIVE freshman,coming in somewhere in the mid 50's overall. So in just one cycle, the 41st district improved it's representation by 60-some odd spots.

THAT is how you get things done. You may agree or disagree with Rep. Harrell on the school board elections issue (and truly, I don't know his position, and don't have kids in schools) but that's just ONE issue. Voters should look at the overall picture.

It will indeed be interesting to see what voters think of the 'overall picture,' not just in District 41 but across the state. I have not seen any poll data on state house/senate races, if anyone here has, please share.

FWIW, Mike Easley's political toxicity seems to flowing to the gubernatorial race. People haven't forgotten about the Black/Wright scandals. And people do scratch their heads when they read about $9m jets, even if just to hear that an order is being cancelled.

Elizabeth Dole is going down in flames, at least partly due to toxicity from GW.

Which party will voters deem less repulsive come election time?

[CarpenterV]

ROTFLMAO, I just got mail from Harrel with his new cutsy little slogan - fighting for what matters to us.

I guess he thinks a new executive jet for his buddy Gov. Easley matters to me.

What matters to me is ONE BILLION dollars in new debt that he burdened us taxpayers with.

What matters to me is greater accountability for my school board (that 25 year old court decision is irrelevant, unless you think Wake County is the same place it was in the early 80's - Wake Up) that he's standing in the way of.

I can't wait to vote for "change that matters" in House District 41.


^ Interesting - no response from the Harrell Fan Club. ^

And about that so-called independent third party group that ranks effectiveness - isn't that just a bunch of lobbyists? Obama deplores money from PACs and special interest groups, yet Harell has taken tens of thousands.

I'm still voting for CHANGE.

[johnshaw]

And about that so-called independent third party group that ranks effectiveness - isn't that just a bunch of lobbyists?
It is not.

[MattD]

ROTFLMAO, I just got mail from Harrel with his new cutsy little slogan - fighting for what matters to us.

I guess he thinks a new executive jet for his buddy Gov. Easley matters to me.

What matters to me is ONE BILLION dollars in new debt that he burdened us taxpayers with.

What matters to me is greater accountability for my school board (that 25 year old court decision is irrelevant, unless you think Wake County is the same place it was in the early 80's - Wake Up) that he's standing in the way of.

I can't wait to vote for "change that matters" in House District 41.


^ Interesting - no response from the Harrell Fan Club. ^


What type of response were you looking for... something like I find it interesting that you think a court decision is irrelevant because it took place 25 years ago? Hey, let's forget Brown vs. Board of Education since that decision was, like, SO yesterday!

I'm glad to hear you are receiving info from Rep Harrell. In the meantime, your candidate has yet to send me or my wife 1 piece of campaign literature.

[DarylB]

I'm still voting for CHANGE.

I guess "change" is what you get with Obama when you don't have the exact amount on you for the votes your purchasing from ACORN.....

http://i.usatoday.net/money/_photos/2007/08/09/coinsx-large.jpg

[JoeCiulla]

Letter in Today's N&O:

The partisan preferences of The N&O are well known and expected. Endorsing seven Democrats and two Republicans for Wake County seats in the state House is par for the historical course. But I submit that any person who takes time from their personal life to run for public office is a patriot and is entitled to respect from journalists. In endorsing both Republicans you gave equal mention of the pros and cons of their Democratic challengers. Good journalism. In endorsing the seven Democrats you discussed only two challengers. Poor journalism.

There are additional patriots among us, and they merit consideration beyond "oh, and the challenger has a Web site." They are:

District 33: Paul Terrell III

District 34: J.H. Ross

District 35: Eric Weaver

District 39: Duane Cutlip

Oh, and with both parties clamoring for change, The N&O has chosen to endorse eight of nine incumbents. Your editorial staff should get out more.

David Robinson

Chairman, Wake GOP

Raleigh


A pity we can't have debates for these offices, leaving the void to be filled by mailers and biased media.

[MattD]

A pity we can't have debates for these offices, leaving the void to be filled by mailers and biased media.

... and bloggers ;-)

[JoeCiulla]

A pity we can't have debates for these offices, leaving the void to be filled by mailers and biased media.

... and bloggers ;-)

touche' !!

[CarpenterV]

ROTFLMAO, I just got mail from Harrel with his new cutsy little slogan - fighting for what matters to us.

I guess he thinks a new executive jet for his buddy Gov. Easley matters to me.

What matters to me is ONE BILLION dollars in new debt that he burdened us taxpayers with.

What matters to me is greater accountability for my school board (that 25 year old court decision is irrelevant, unless you think Wake County is the same place it was in the early 80's - Wake Up) that he's standing in the way of.

I can't wait to vote for "change that matters" in House District 41.


^ Interesting - no response from the Harrell Fan Club. ^


What type of response were you looking for... something like I find it interesting that you think a court decision is irrelevant because it took place 25 years ago? Hey, let's forget Brown vs. Board of Education since that decision was, like, SO yesterday!

I'm glad to hear you are receiving info from Rep Harrell. In the meantime, your candidate has yet to send me or my wife 1 piece of campaign literature.

It is not the amount of time that has passed since a court decision that makes it irrelevant its what has happened since the decision. Most of us know Wake County is a very different place now than it was in 1982, I'm sorry your candidate is so out of touch.

It is a shame you haven't received Bryan Gossage's mail, its very nice. I am glad to know he has Sheriff Harrison's support, he'll make a nice change in our legislature.

Harrel's mail is funny, I think in the picture in one of them he was sitting at a table with a family adding up how much his new taxes were going to cost them --- or maybe he's helping them calculate their share of the Gov's new jet.

Obama - McCrory - Gossage (out with the old. in with the new)

[JoeCiulla]

What matters to me is greater accountability for my school board (that 25 year old court decision is irrelevant


To be clear, while there has been a lot of speculation about whether at-large School Board election would violate the Voting Rights Act, there has been no definitive legal ruling.

The NCGA has an excellent legal staff, and Ty Harrell brought in a NAACP Voting Rights Act expert attorney to offer their opinion. NONE have said at-large school board elections would violate the VRA.

70% of counties in NC already have at-large School Board elections, apparently without running afoul of the VRA. What's different about Wake County?

This is nothing more than a smokescreen. If Ty Harrell and the rest of his pals were actually worried about the Voting Rights Act, don't you think they would have pressed their legal staff to issue a definitive opinion?

The Democratic party controls Wake County schools, and Ty Harrell has taken one for the team to keep it that way -- irregardless of the needs of District 41 citizens.