Question for Stan from Janet

[dhyatt]

Stan,
This question was emailed to me from Janet Conner:

"I met Stan at the Substitute Teacher Association meeting Thursday night. I meant to inquire what his reasoning is for being against At-Large voting for School Board members, as we do for County Commissioners. Would it be better for all voters in Wake Co. to choose all the Board members?"

[Brent]

Stan can speak for himself, of course, but here's Stan's answer to me on this topic. I assume that his position hasn't changed and he would give this same answer to Janet?


I represent everyone in the county. While you feel strongly about changing the way BOE elections are held others feel equally strongly to the contrary. Many feel your initial proposal was a challenge to diversity. Several voters elsewhere have questioned me directly about this initial proposal since I live in Cary. I have told them and those on this board that I fully support diversity in public schools. It is a deep seated value for me.

The compromise proposal I aired is not something I feel strongly about. The art of political leadership is to pick a few issues on which you feel strongly and push the hell out of those. I feel strongly about local revenue options that provide relief for hard-pressed taxpayers, raising the bar of public education, public transit options, better land use planning to contain sprawl, financing structures that are non-regressive and sustainable, the need for drought-proofing the region, the need for more conservative fiscal management of county (both non-school and school) initiatives, the need for greater efficiency in delivering services through consolidation, the need for stronger implementation of existing regulations and (when necessary) new regulations to protect our water supply. Most of these can be traced back to the common theme of better growth management.

Many people don't like my solutions. As always there is resistance to change. I get suggestions from all over the county as to what citizens I represent would like to see me do in addition. If I used my energies to pursue them all, I would, in the end accomplish nothing. In fact you could argue that the agenda I already have is far too ambitious and I have prioritized within it.

I am staggered about the enormity of the issues Wake County faces and how those issued have become more acute over the past eight years. I am encouraged when citizens organize to advocate for those issues and appalled by the many who don't seem to care about them.

You are correct in perceiving my ambivalence on the issue you feel is critical. I agree its not leadership...on this particular issue. I see that pursuing even the compromise plan to be an enormous time sink - with little chance of success. The solution as originally proposed divides the Wake County community rather than strengthening it. I run at large and do not represent a single district. Your original proposal is perceived as an I Win- You Lose solution. I don't see a critical mass of citizens across the county supporting it. I see the benefits of the compromise plan to be real but modest compared to the expenditure of time.

(BTW, if CC's were elected from districts, getting your district's representative to pay more attention to your issue would be a lot easier.)

But differences in opinion are part of the political process. Pursue your passion. See how far you can take it. But don't ask me to march at the head of your parade.

[DarylB]

Stan can speak for himself, of course, but here's Stan's answer to me on this topic. I assume that his position hasn't changed and he would give this same answer to Janet?

[quote=StanN]
I represent everyone in the county.

On the contrary, Stan doesn't represent me, or anyone else in Wake county, yet. He WANTs to be a representative, but he isn't one yet, and I have to say that even if he were to be elected (worst case), he still would not represent me, but only those few monied-interests, the lobbyist-activists, who form a somewhat smaller subset of Wake county citizens affectionately known as the "Friends of Wake County" - (FOWC). He's been bought and paid for, and that's his message back to us. He's been given his marching orders, so screw off!

......don't ask me to march at the head of your parade.
I'm cool with that! In fact, we need a leader prepared to head a quite different parade altogether...and he needs to lead his socialist parade in the privacy of his socialist friends, because personally, socialist parades just creep me out!

[StanN]

Stan,
This question was emailed to me from Janet Conner:

"I met Stan at the Substitute Teacher Association meeting Thursday night. I meant to inquire what his reasoning is for being against At-Large voting for School Board members, as we do for County Commissioners. Would it be better for all voters in Wake Co. to choose all the Board members?"

A simple answer to forward to Ms. Conner...running at large over a county larger than a congressional district is so demanding and expensive that unless you can raise lots of money from special interests or have enough money to fund your own campaign you are typically at a competitive disadvantage. The conventional wisdom is that over $100,000 is needed to be competitive in a county wide partisan race.

If you are for impact fees, managed growth and most local revenue options to the property tax, it is difficult to raise money from the largest block of contributors, i.e. the real estate and development industry. There are exceptions..several have supported my campaign, but they are few and far between.

Several folks, whom I expected to vigorously support my campaign because our views are in synch, refused to contribute because they did business with developers.

Similarly, if you are a supporter of public schools, you are cut-off from another large source of money from those that would rather see private schools or vouchers, e.g. the Pope family, Bob Luddy and other Libertarians who agree with them.

If you could canvass a smaller district, impossible over 860 sq. miles, or even afford direct mail, a wider variety of people could run for office.

Please pass this on to Ms. Conner.

[Brent]

A simple answer to forward to Ms. Conner...running at large over a county larger than a congressional district is so demanding and expensive that unless you can raise lots of money from special interests or have enough money to fund your own campaign you are typically at a competitive disadvantage. The conventional wisdom is that over $100,000 is needed to be competitive in a county wide partisan race.

If you are for impact fees, managed growth and most local revenue options to the property tax, it is difficult to raise money from the largest block of contributors, i.e. the real estate and development industry. There are exceptions..several have supported my campaign, but they are few and far between.

Several folks, whom I expected to vigorously support my campaign because our views are in synch, refused to contribute because they did business with developers.

Similarly, if you are a supporter of public schools, you are cut-off from another large source of money from those that would rather see private schools or vouchers, e.g. the Pope family, Bob Luddy and other Libertarians who agree with them.

If you could canvass a smaller district, impossible over 860 sq. miles, or even afford direct mail, a wider variety of people could run for office.

Please pass this on to Ms. Conner.

Wow, that's quite a different answer than the one I got on this issue.

Personally, I don't buy the argument of "it's harder because it's a bigger area with more people".

Sometimes doing the right thing is, in fact, more difficult.

[Don]

A simple answer to forward to Ms. Conner...running at large over a county larger than a congressional district is so demanding and expensive that unless you can raise lots of money from special interests or have enough money to fund your own campaign you are typically at a competitive disadvantage. The conventional wisdom is that over $100,000 is needed to be competitive in a county wide partisan race.


So have you, Stan raised lots of money from special interests?

BTW, the commercials with Perry Woods are pretty good.

[JoeCiulla]

Stan,
This question was emailed to me from Janet Conner:

"I met Stan at the Substitute Teacher Association meeting Thursday night. I meant to inquire what his reasoning is for being against At-Large voting for School Board members, as we do for County Commissioners. Would it be better for all voters in Wake Co. to choose all the Board members?"

A simple answer to forward to Ms. Conner...running at large over a county larger than a congressional district is so demanding and expensive that unless you can raise lots of money from special interests or have enough money to fund your own campaign you are typically at a competitive disadvantage. The conventional wisdom is that over $100,000 is needed to be competitive in a county wide partisan race.

If you are for impact fees, managed growth and most local revenue options to the property tax, it is difficult to raise money from the largest block of contributors, i.e. the real estate and development industry. There are exceptions..several have supported my campaign, but they are few and far between.

Several folks, whom I expected to vigorously support my campaign because our views are in synch, refused to contribute because they did business with developers.

Similarly, if you are a supporter of public schools, you are cut-off from another large source of money from those that would rather see private schools or vouchers, e.g. the Pope family, Bob Luddy and other Libertarians who agree with them.

If you could canvass a smaller district, impossible over 860 sq. miles, or even afford direct mail, a wider variety of people could run for office.

Please pass this on to Ms. Conner.

Stan,
Are you saying that if not for the inherent campaigning challenges, you would support at-large elections for the school board?

[johnshaw]

What I don't understand is why people in Cary want to allow people in the rest of the county to choose who we put on the school board. Maybe the people in Eastern Wake know better than we about who should represent us, but I doubt that this is true.

[Brent]

What I don't understand is why people in Cary want to allow people in the rest of the county to choose who we put on the school board. Maybe the people in Eastern Wake know better than we about who should represent us, but I doubt that this is true.

Although "at-large school board elections" means different things to different people, with some advocating that ALL school board seats be elected at-large, I have always advocated for some -- I believe ideally 4 of the 9 -- members being elected at-large, with the remainder being elected from districts (actually, since long before this has become a hot issue recently).

I believe that this offers families the best overall representation. People still have a district representative to turn to, but a portion of the board is answerable to voters county-wide and hence, one would presume, are more interested in the system's overall performance rather than "getting some for my district".

This mirrors the composition of the Cary Town Council, many other municipal bodies, and most forms of representative government at all levels, where "someone" represents me as a district representative and "someone" represents me across the entire jurisdiction (city, state, nation).

[Belle]

In my dreams, we'd have a sub-committee of at-larges working on reassignment, and we'd have both at-larges and district representation on everything else. I'm sure there's some reason we can't do that, but it's nice to dream . . . .

[JoeCiulla]

What I don't understand is why people in Cary want to allow people in the rest of the county to choose who we put on the school board. Maybe the people in Eastern Wake know better than we about who should represent us, but I doubt that this is true.

John,

Right now the people of Cary and Apex have NO representative on the school board. Ron Margiotta occupies the seat and does a great job advocating for us, but is consistently on the losing end of an 8-1 vote. That is because 8 of the 9 members can put the shaft to Western Wake with complete impunity.

I happen to agree with Brent's proposal of 5 district and 4 at-large seats. This lets each district have dedicated representation, but ensures that citizens vote for a majority of positions. Senator Stevens' bill proposed exactly this, but was buried in committee by the Democratic Party. This is a fair compromise.

Unfortunately, the Democratic legislators I have spoken with have been uninterested in compromise, or in Ty Harrell's case have gone out of their way to dodge the issue completely. And rather that have an honest discourse, those opposed to reform hide behind a VRA smokescreen or anything else they can come up with to avoid genuine consideration. Some are going to get burned.

The "merry-go-round" flyer that came out in District 41 earlier this week will hit home with a lot of people.

[johnshaw]

Right now the people of Cary and Apex have NO representative on the school board. Ron Margiotta occupies the seat and does a great job advocating for us, but is consistently on the losing end of an 8-1 vote. That is because 8 of the 9 members can put the shaft to Western Wake with complete impunity.
Joe,
We do have representation, it is just that he is out numbered. But if the folks in Raleigh were able to choose our district member, it might change from 1-8 to 0-9. There are more of them than of us.

I like the proposal of a mixture of at large members (who don’t have districts) and district members, elected by their district. But the Nelson Dollar bill (HB 432) would require that all members of the board supposedly represent districts but be elected county wide.

The "merry-go-round" flyer had some good points, but letting the people in Raleigh choose our board member will not solve the problem. We should be working on the "merry-go-round" problem, not wasting our time on changes that will not correct the problem.

[JoeCiulla]

Right now the people of Cary and Apex have NO representative on the school board. Ron Margiotta occupies the seat and does a great job advocating for us, but is consistently on the losing end of an 8-1 vote. That is because 8 of the 9 members can put the shaft to Western Wake with complete impunity.
Joe,
We do have representation, it is just that he is out numbered. But if the folks in Raleigh were able to choose our district member, it might change from 1-8 to 0-9. There are more of them than of us.

I like the proposal of a mixture of at large members (who don’t have districts) and district members, elected by their district. But the Nelson Dollar bill (HB 432) would require that all members of the board supposedly represent districts but be elected county wide.

The "merry-go-round" flyer had some good points, but letting the people in Raleigh choose our board member will not solve the problem. We should be working on the "merry-go-round" problem, not wasting our time on changes that will not correct the problem.

John,

As the saying goes, the rotten fish stinks from the head down. Much of the merry-go-round problem is caused by the school board through their social engineering, MYR agenda and poor planning.

Just look at one recent example: Panther Creek HS is over-enrolled by 500 kids, Cary HS is under-enrolled by the same amount. Two years ago, kids were yanked out of Cary HS and forced to Panther Creek. WCPSS couldn't even file the paperwork on time to get the PCHS trailers installed. If I had the time I could list a hundred similar snafu's.

Rosa Gill can make decisions all day long that are great for her district but wreak havoc out west -- and there's nothing I can do about it. Same with seven other board members. I just cannot accept that.

Here's the real shame -- I believe that most of the people on this board would support a 4/5 mix of at-large and district members. Perhaps Wake County citizens as a whole might be happy with that. This should not be a campaign issue, but the Status Quo Seven made it one by digging in their heels and burying 432 in committee instead of reaching across the aisle on a 4/5 compromise.

[JoeCiulla]

Here's an exchange between me and Ty from his blog:



*
Joe Ciulla
October 10th, 2008 at 8:07 pm

LOL. Along with six other Democratic General Assembly members, I think Ty should have earned high marks for suppressing the rights of voters in his district.

In the last session, Ty and six of his contemporaries succeeded in killing legislation which would have given us the right to vote for ALL school board positions, not just one of nine.

Very effective.
*
Ty
October 13th, 2008 at 10:49 pm

One very simple thing Mr. Ciulla continuously fails to understand is that the NC House has no jurisdiction over WAKE COUNTY public schools.

Mr. Ciulla, your pony is out of tricks.
*
Joe Ciulla
October 20th, 2008 at 7:53 pm

I find it interesting that Mr. Harrell’s flyers which fill my mailbox continuously talk about schools, if in fact the NC house has no jurisdiction over them.

To find the truth, visit http://www.takeourschoolsback.org


I don't mind the trick pony comment, I probably deserved it. But this does provide yet another good example of dodging the issue.

[johnshaw]

Just look at one recent example: Panther Creek HS is over-enrolled by 500 kids, Cary HS is under-enrolled by the same amount. Two years ago, kids were yanked out of Cary HS and forced to Panther Creek. WCPSS couldn't even file the paperwork on time to get the PCHS trailers installed. If I had the time I could list a hundred similar snafu's.

Rosa Gill can make decisions all day long that are great for her district but wreak havoc out west -- and there's nothing I can do about it. Same with seven other board members. I just cannot accept that.

Joe,
I can certainly understand the problems. But would allowing the people who elected Rosa Gill and others to elect our board member solve the problem? Or even help?


Here's the real shame -- I believe that most of the people on this board would support a 4/5 mix of at-large and district members. Perhaps Wake County citizens as a whole might be happy with that. This should not be a campaign issue, but the Status Quo Seven made it one by digging in their heels and burying 432 in committee instead of reaching across the aisle on a 4/5 compromise.
Did Reps. Dollar or Avila (the two sponsors of HB 432) reach across the aisle to work on a bill that could actually help solve the problem? And why did their bill (Section 2) move the election to the even numbered years, when the local education issues would be buried under the “top of the ballot” races?

If Reps. Dollar and Avila were serious about really helping solve the school problems, they would have worked to draft a bill that would really address the problem, try to achieve a local consensus and bi-partisan support. And they would have kept the change of year out. That is a different matter. Why did they even introduce a bill that would not have solved the problem but had the potential of making it worse, rather than introducing a bill to have mixed at large and district members.

The bill was stuck in the Election Law and Campaign Finance Reform committee. Rep. Harrell is not a member of that committee. Cary’s own Rep. Stam is a member and is the House Minority Leader. Was he perhaps more to blame than Rep. Harrell?

[JoeCiulla]

Just look at one recent example: Panther Creek HS is over-enrolled by 500 kids, Cary HS is under-enrolled by the same amount. Two years ago, kids were yanked out of Cary HS and forced to Panther Creek. WCPSS couldn't even file the paperwork on time to get the PCHS trailers installed. If I had the time I could list a hundred similar snafu's.

Rosa Gill can make decisions all day long that are great for her district but wreak havoc out west -- and there's nothing I can do about it. Same with seven other board members. I just cannot accept that.

Joe,
I can certainly understand the problems. But would allowing the people who elected Rosa Gill and others to elect our board member solve the problem? Or even help?

With at large elections, I'd like to think people like Rosa Gill won't get elected. And future board members wouldn't be able to do what Rosa or the others have done and still keep their jobs, because they don't just have to keep their own little district happy.


Here's the real shame -- I believe that most of the people on this board would support a 4/5 mix of at-large and district members. Perhaps Wake County citizens as a whole might be happy with that. This should not be a campaign issue, but the Status Quo Seven made it one by digging in their heels and burying 432 in committee instead of reaching across the aisle on a 4/5 compromise.
Did Reps. Dollar or Avila (the two sponsors of HB 432) reach across the aisle to work on a bill that could actually help solve the problem? And why did their bill (Section 2) move the election to the even numbered years, when the local education issues would be buried under the “top of the ballot” races?

If Reps. Dollar and Avila were serious about really helping solve the school problems, they would have worked to draft a bill that would really address the problem, try to achieve a local consensus and bi-partisan support. And they would have kept the change of year out. That is a different matter. Why did they even introduce a bill that would not have solved the problem but had the potential of making it worse, rather than introducing a bill to have mixed at large and district members.

The bill was stuck in the Election Law and Campaign Finance Reform committee. Rep. Harrell is not a member of that committee. Cary’s own Rep. Stam is a member and is the House Minority Leader. Was he perhaps more to blame than Rep. Harrell?

John,

I discussed this with several Wake County Democratic delegation members. They told me in no uncertain terms that they would not support any at-large elections. Others emailed me with the same. I spoke at a Wake County NCGA delegation meeting, and it was like I was talking to a wall. You can't reach across the aisle when they've built an electrified fence. I would expect the republicans to be open to a 4/5 compromise, and would be very disappointed if they were not.

Moving the elections to even-numbered years synchs means the campaigns will cost more to run, but there will be greater voter turnout. If there was intent to bury school issues in national politics, it sure would have backfired on them this time. If even-number year elections are a stopping point, then they should negotiate.

Bills don't go anywhere unless a majority of the county delegation supports them. With 6-3 against 432 and no willingness to compromise, the bill was doomed. Ty may not have been on the committee, but he sure was part of the 6-3. As I stated before, I disagree with the Wake Dems on this, but respect their willingness to take a position.

In the case of Mr. Harrell, I had to deduce his position based on his lack of response. He hosted a District Dialog on this topic which was discussed in a previous thread. District Dialogs are great, but they don't mean anything if they don't yield District Decisions. Read the blog exchange I posted. A leader responds with their position, explains why, and deals with the consequences. His 'Not my responsibility' response is nothing more than dodging the issue. Do you think he's showing leadership?

[Eric_M_Weaver_Sr]

I discussed this with several Wake County Democratic delegation members. They told me in no uncertain terms that they would not support any at-large elections. Others emailed me with the same. I spoke at a Wake County NCGA delegation meeting, and it was like I was talking to a wall. You can't reach across the aisle when they've built an electrified fence. I would expect the republicans to be open to a 4/5 compromise, and would be very disappointed if they were not.


Joe, I fully support House Bill 432, or some sort of compromise that leads to effective representation for Western Wake County.

In fact, I have already written about this on my blog (http://www.electweaver.com/dontkillthegoose/2008/10/02/improve-public-education/).

So when I am elected, I think that the delegation split will be considerably different!

[JoeCiulla]

John,
By coincidence, I just received an invitation to a meet & greet from somebody I have only met once:


Dear Neighbors,

Many of you are receiving this invitation because of our common interest in Wake County School issues. XXXXX and I warmly invite you to a Meet & Greet we’re hosting for Bryan Gossage. Bryan is running for District 41 House Representative and supports At-Large representation on the school board. As you likely know by now, At-Large representation offers the hope of a fair balance to the citizen to school board representation ratio. In spite of vigorous attempts to communicate with our current House Representative regarding the unfairness to his constituents, Ty Harrell does NOT support this important At-Large representation.



There are a large number of people in District 41 who do not believe Ty has represented their interests on this issue. And, parents in several other districts feel the same way about their incumbent representatives.