Road and transit poll

[StanN]

Especially for Joe C

http://ncpolicywatch.com/docs/pdfs/NCPW_Survey_100807.pdf

[JoeCiulla]

Especially for Joe C

http://ncpolicywatch.com/docs/pdfs/NCPW_Survey_100807.pdf

Stan,
Thanks for thinking of me :iconbiggrin:

Because I don't agree with 100% of your left-wing policy, you're trying to pain me as an ultra right-winger. That is not the case. On matters such as abortion, impact fees and others, my opinion would be considered Democratic.

But I'll take the bait and respond. Here's one good question for starters:

Q6 With the rising costs of highway construction,
experts believe a new source of funding will be
necessary if North Carolina is going to repair
all of its existing roads and bridges and build
more roads. What do you think is the best way
to raise the money: raise the gasoline tax,
introduce toll roads, raise the sales tax on cars
to the same rate as all other products, a
combination of these three, or none of the
above? If the gas tax, press 1. If toll roads,
press 2. If sales tax on cars, press 3. If a
combination, press 4. If none of the above,
press 5. If you have no opinion, press 6.
Gas tax .................. . 7%
Toll roads ............... .26%
Sales tax on cars ... .15%
Combination........... .21%
None of the above . .28%
No opinion.............. . 3%

A flawed survey question to begin with. While we do need more funding for roads, we don't necessarily need a new tax or toll to get there. The NC Highway Trust has been pillaged. Your Democratic buddies in the State Legislature have put us $2B in debt. Where's Option 7 which says we tighten the belt and get rid of more than just $9M jets? And I do note that 'None of the above' was the leading response.

[StanN]

Especially for Joe C

http://ncpolicywatch.com/docs/pdfs/NCPW_Survey_100807.pdf

Stan,
Thanks for thinking of me :iconbiggrin:

Because I don't agree with 100% of your left-wing policy, you're trying to pain me as an ultra right-winger. That is not the case. On matters such as abortion, impact fees and others, my opinion would be considered Democratic.

But I'll take the bait and respond. Here's one good question for starters:

Q6 With the rising costs of highway construction,
experts believe a new source of funding will be
necessary if North Carolina is going to repair
all of its existing roads and bridges and build
more roads. What do you think is the best way
to raise the money: raise the gasoline tax,
introduce toll roads, raise the sales tax on cars
to the same rate as all other products, a
combination of these three, or none of the
above? If the gas tax, press 1. If toll roads,
press 2. If sales tax on cars, press 3. If a
combination, press 4. If none of the above,
press 5. If you have no opinion, press 6.
Gas tax .................. . 7%
Toll roads ............... .26%
Sales tax on cars ... .15%
Combination........... .21%
None of the above . .28%
No opinion.............. . 3%

A flawed survey question to begin with. While we do need more funding for roads, we don't necessarily need a new tax or toll to get there. The NC Highway Trust has been pillaged. Your Democratic buddies in the State Legislature have put us $2B in debt. Where's Option 7 which says we tighten the belt and get rid of more than just $9M jets? And I do note that 'None of the above' was the leading response.

[b]Given that the unfunded requirements for roads and bridges are estimated at $30-60 Billion statewide...how would you fund same?[b/]

I totally agree about the jet but that ain't going to solve the road problem. I'm ambivalent about the $170 million as that was an agreed, negotiated amount in return for other funding by the State. I have been outspoken about the mismanagement/misallocation of the State trust fund for roads. That should be fixed. But today's problem remains. We all have a choice: Improve our transportation system (=$'s) or see it get worse and worse.

The question I was most interested in was

Q4 Some people say that if North Carolina’s
growing metro areas are going to avoid the
sprawl and pollution problems of places like
Atlanta, expanded bus service and light rail
must be a part of the solution. Others say that
such concerns are overblown and that a
renewed commitment to building new roads
and highways is the best course. Which option
do you favor? If a combination of roads, buses
and light rail, press 1. If new roads only, press
2. If you have no opinion, press 3.

Combo of roads,
bus and rail .............69%
New roads only ...... .19%
No opinion.............. .12%

Your position was that most people don't want transit. That is possibly true in Cary (but no data) which is centrally located and highly affluent on average than most in the state...but transit is a regional/state/federal issue.

Talking to people in FV, HS, Eastern Wake or in SE Raleigh would give you a better feel how the majority in Wake sees the issues.

BTW, I agree that people are complex and labels and stereotypes are often misleading. I don't like to be labeled and my disagreement with you seems largely limited to public education.

However, you will get labeled by the friends you keep. Having Misegades/Luddy/Pope in your coalition is not a good idea for a group of parents who want to change public education. Luddy wants to tear down the system of public schools...not change it.

Similarly, I will be labeled for my support from the teachers and BOE members. That doesn't mean that I will accept everything they ask for...Cest la vie.

BTW, the bait I would have hoped you would take was Kenny G insisting that WCPSS is the second best school system in the NATION.

[Brent]

Another flawed survey question.

The only two options are a "combo of roads, buses, trains" or "roads only".

This should be more granular...roads, buses, trains each taken individually. As it is, people like me who support a combo of roads and buses have no accurate choice to make.

And this also most likely reflects the phenomenon seen in previous surveys, in which many people favor mass transit, but few people say that they would use it. They favor it "for everyone else, so people will get off the roads that I use". Another question about whether or not respondents would use buses or trains should be included in the survey.

[JoeCiulla]

I totally agree about the jet but that ain't going to solve the road problem. I'm ambivalent about the $170 million as that was an agreed, negotiated amount in return for other funding by the State. I have been outspoken about the mismanagement/misallocation of the State trust fund for roads. That should be fixed. But today's problem remains. We all have a choice: Improve our transportation system (=$'s) or see it get worse and worse.

The question I was most interested in was

Q4 Some people say that if North Carolina’s
growing metro areas are going to avoid the
sprawl and pollution problems of places like
Atlanta, expanded bus service and light rail
must be a part of the solution. Others say that
such concerns are overblown and that a
renewed commitment to building new roads
and highways is the best course. Which option
do you favor? If a combination of roads, buses
and light rail, press 1. If new roads only, press
2. If you have no opinion, press 3.

Combo of roads,
bus and rail .............69%
New roads only ...... .19%
No opinion.............. .12%

Your position was that most people don't want transit. That is possibly true in Cary (but no data) which is centrally located and highly affluent on average than most in the state...but transit is a regional/state/federal issue.

As Brent points out, I think the survey should have broken bus and rail out separately. But I wont argue that I am not Cary-biased in my opinion. As you stated, we don't have survey data either way.


BTW, I agree that people are complex and labels and stereotypes are often misleading. I don't like to be labeled and my disagreement with you seems largely limited to public education.

However, you will get labeled by the friends you keep. Having Misegades/Luddy/Pope in your coalition is not a good idea for a group of parents who want to change public education. Luddy wants to tear down the system of public schools...not change it.


Stan, I have never met or communicated in any way with Misegades or Pope. And I'll confess I don't even know who Luddy is (Luddy Dole?).:scratch:

Last Fall I campaigned hard for Dems. This Fall, I find my priorities more aligned with Republicans. Next Fall I will definitely be working on a Democratic campaign. Perhaps I will get to the point where neither side welcomes me.


BTW, the bait I would have hoped you would take was Kenny G insisting that WCPSS is the second best school system in the NATION.

Too late to take the bait? WCPSS might make second best school in East Timor. And this points to one of the many disservices to this county by the school board: Their steadfast refusal to used standardized testing which can be used compare across the country. The only standardized data available is the SAT, and NC as a whole ranks in the bottom half of the country. Kenn, Rosa and whoever else wants can make all kinds of outrageous claims, and no one can prove them wrong.

I think we both agree that our schools need a huge amount of work, we just disagree on the steps.

[StanN]

Another flawed survey question.

The only two options are a "combo of roads, buses, trains" or "roads only".

This should be more granular...roads, buses, trains each taken individually. As it is, people like me who support a combo of roads and buses have no accurate choice to make.

And this also most likely reflects the phenomenon seen in previous surveys, in which many people favor mass transit, but few people say that they would use it. They favor it "for everyone else, so people will get off the roads that I use". Another question about whether or not respondents would use buses or trains should be included in the survey.

The statement that started this thread was that transit is unpopular.
There is no evidence for that. I agree that the survey does not isolate the transportation options. In the most comparable county, Charlotte-Meclenburg, the Lynx bus/light rail system's ridership has far exced plan and anyone's expectations. The 1/2 cent sales tax easily survived a roll-back vote...another testimony to the popularity of the system. We are going through a wierd period now where gasoline prices have dropped precipitously...but the cost of gasoline and the popularity of transit will go up once we get through this world-wide recession.

As I understand the current plan, all the local funding will be used for busses. Federal and State funds will be needed for the rail portion, which is at least 7-8 years away.

[StanN]

Another flawed survey question.

The only two options are a "combo of roads, buses, trains" or "roads only".

This should be more granular...roads, buses, trains each taken individually. As it is, people like me who support a combo of roads and buses have no accurate choice to make.

And this also most likely reflects the phenomenon seen in previous surveys, in which many people favor mass transit, but few people say that they would use it. They favor it "for everyone else, so people will get off the roads that I use". Another question about whether or not respondents would use buses or trains should be included in the survey.



I totally agree about the jet but that ain't going to solve the road problem. I'm ambivalent about the $170 million as that was an agreed, negotiated amount in return for other funding by the State. I have been outspoken about the mismanagement/misallocation of the State trust fund for roads. That should be fixed. But today's problem remains. We all have a choice: Improve our transportation system (=$'s) or see it get worse and worse.

The question I was most interested in was

Q4 Some people say that if North Carolina’s
growing metro areas are going to avoid the
sprawl and pollution problems of places like
Atlanta, expanded bus service and light rail
must be a part of the solution. Others say that
such concerns are overblown and that a
renewed commitment to building new roads
and highways is the best course. Which option
do you favor? If a combination of roads, buses
and light rail, press 1. If new roads only, press
2. If you have no opinion, press 3.

Combo of roads,
bus and rail .............69%
New roads only ...... .19%
No opinion.............. .12%

Your position was that most people don't want transit. That is possibly true in Cary (but no data) which is centrally located and highly affluent on average than most in the state...but transit is a regional/state/federal issue.

As Brent points out, I think the survey should have broken bus and rail out separately. But I wont argue that I am not Cary-biased in my opinion. As you stated, we don't have survey data either way.


BTW, I agree that people are complex and labels and stereotypes are often misleading. I don't like to be labeled and my disagreement with you seems largely limited to public education.

However, you will get labeled by the friends you keep. Having Misegades/Luddy/Pope in your coalition is not a good idea for a group of parents who want to change public education. Luddy wants to tear down the system of public schools...not change it.


Stan, I have never met or communicated in any way with Misegades or Pope. And I'll confess I don't even know who Luddy is (Luddy Dole?).:scratch:

Last Fall I campaigned hard for Dems. This Fall, I find my priorities more aligned with Republicans. Next Fall I will definitely be working on a Democratic campaign. Perhaps I will get to the point where neither side welcomes me.


BTW, the bait I would have hoped you would take was Kenny G insisting that WCPSS is the second best school system in the NATION.

Too late to take the bait? WCPSS might make second best school in East Timor. And this points to one of the many disservices to this county by the school board: Their steadfast refusal to used standardized testing which can be used compare across the country. The only standardized data available is the SAT, and NC as a whole ranks in the bottom half of the country. Kenn, Rosa and whoever else wants can make all kinds of outrageous claims, and no one can prove them wrong.

I think we both agree that our schools need a huge amount of work, we just disagree on the steps.

Multi-millionaire Art Pope is the #1 source of financing for the far-right, e.g. the JLF and Americans for Prosperity and for many far-right candidates who support his anti-tax, anti public school, anti-government agenda. Multi-millionaire Bob Luddy, who owns Captive Air, (they make exhaust system for restaurants), sits on JLF's board and totally supports Pope's philosophy. He failed in a race for CC. In an earlier election cycle he gave Kenn $4000. Luddy is a major proponent of charter and private schools. Misegades is Luddy's new headmaster for Thales Academy private school. Misegades has been very vocal about resegregating the schools. He thinks diversity is a sham. He wouldn't be working for Luddy if he felt otherwise. I understand he is part of the coalition with Wake Cares. Even though you haven't met him the old saw applies "Lie down with dogs, get up with fleas."

We agree the schools need improvement. I don't believe they are as bad as you paint them but we agree there performance is going downhill. While their performance is in the top ten pct. of the state, that is not good enough in today's world. Reversing that course is my #1 reason for running. Impact fees, improved prioritization and teamwork by the BOE and BOC working toward a common vision and goal is key. IMO the CC's have done a poor job of prioitization.
E.g. I don't see how a new administrative Hdq. or a convention center come ahead of schools.

[johnshaw]

The NC Highway Trust has been pillaged.
How so? Are you referring to the transfer from the Highway Trust Fund to the General Fund? First, that was a result of removing the sales tax on cars from the General Fund to the Highway Trust Fund.


If that transfer was not made, it would be more correct to say that the General Fund was pillaged to pay for certain highways. The amount of the transfer was $170 Million. The total of the Highway Fund and the Highway Trust Fund (two different funds) is about $3,249 Million. The transfer is about 5%. The transfer started higher, to replace all the sales tax that would have gone into the general fund. It is declining, and will be $71 million in FY2010.


Your Democratic buddies in the State Legislature have put us $2B in debt. Are you confusing debt with the projected $2B shortfall due to the fact that receipts from sales tax and income tax are expected to be lower than what was expected when the budget was adopted (mid July). Back in July did you expect the economy to tank the way that it has? How can you blame the NCGA when the economy is the same (or worse) in the rest of the country.

Of course, we have debt. All the new schools, water treatment plants, etc. around the state are paid for with debt (like in the rest of the country).

[johnshaw]

Another flawed survey question.

The only two options are a "combo of roads, buses, trains" or "roads only".

This should be more granular...roads, buses, trains each taken individually. As it is, people like me who support a combo of roads and buses have no accurate choice to make.
Perhaps it would have been better to have nine questions (all eight combinations, including no transportation and no opinion). However, the roads, bus, and rail combo option does not specify the amount of each. We already have some rail (called Amtrak). Most of the time I go to downtown Raleigh during the day I drive to the Cary train station and take the bus downtown and back. Sometimes, however, I return to Cary on Amtrak.

The important think about the poll is that most of the people want something other than roads only.