Kelly will be happy to learn who torpedo'd Dr Dean

[johnb]

www.foxnews.com

Torricelli, Unions Financed Group Behind Anti-Dean Ads

Tuesday, February 10, 2004

WASHINGTON — A group that ran an ad using a picture of Usama bin Laden to portray Howard Dean as unqualified to fight terror was financed by donors who included labor unions, former Democratic Sen. Bob Torricelli (search) and at least two of Dean's own donors.

Americans for Jobs, Healthcare and Progressive Values (search) ran at least three ads in December against then-Democratic presidential front-runner Dean in early-voting states, a finance report the group provided Tuesday to The Associated Press showed.

The group spent $15,000 on an ad aired in South Carolina and New Hampshire that showed a picture of bin Laden and said Dean lacked the experience needed to take on terrorists.

The group aired two anti-Dean ads in Iowa, the first state to hold a delegate contest. One criticized Dean's history of endorsements by the National Rifle Association (search); the other blasted his support for the North American Free Trade Agreement and said he supported cuts to Medicare.

In all, the group raised $663,000 last year and spent $626,840 of it, the finance report showed. It spent $500,000 on ads.

"We did more with $600,000 than Howard Dean did with $41 million," said David Jones, the group's treasurer and a Democratic fund-raising consultant, referring to the Democratic record campaign fund Dean raised and largely spent last year.

Jones' effort drew some big donors, including two who gave $100,000 each.

They are Slim-Fast Foods tycoon S. Daniel Abraham of Florida, who also contributed $2,000 to Dean and several other Democratic hopefuls; and Yankees Entertainment & Sports Network LLC, a New York-based sports cable channel that televises Yankee games. The YES Network's chief executive, Leo Hindery, contributed $2,000 to then-Dean rival Rep. Dick Gephardt, who dropped out of the race after finishing fourth in Iowa.

Abraham wasn't the only Dean donor who gave to the group. California attorney Ken Ziffren gave $5,000 to the Jones group and $2,000 each to the campaigns of Dean, Gephardt and John Kerry. Abraham and Ziffren did not immediately respond to messages left at their offices seeking comment.

Dean spokesman Jay Carson called the group's anti-Dean commercials "some of the nastiest smear ads" in the Democratic race.

"The Washington establishment put this group together just to try to stop Gov. Dean," Carson said.

Former New Jersey Sen. Torricelli, currently raising money for front-runner Kerry, donated $50,000 from his Senate campaign fund to Jones' group.

Federal Election Commission spokesman Bob Biersack said it was "fuzzy" whether Torricelli's contribution was permissible under FEC rules. Donations to such groups are not included on an FEC list of permitted uses for campaign funds.

Torricelli and his campaign treasurer, attorney Michael Perrucci, did not immediately respond to messages left at their offices Tuesday evening seeking comment.

Nearly all the group's donors were backers of Gephardt, who staked his candidacy on Iowa and was in a head-to-head battle with Dean there in December when the backers gave to the group.

They include several labor unions: The International Longshoremen's Association, Laborers International Union and International Association of Machinists, which gave $50,000 each; the International Association of Ironworkers, $25,000; and the International Brotherhood of Boilermakers, $5,000.

Jones would not to comment on the large number of Gephardt donors to his group, saying only that the group had not bought a donor list from the Gephardt campaign.

[johnb]

GASP! The Donkeycrat party establishment torpedo'd Dr Dean? But why? Aren't they supposed to respect the will of the people, to represent the people? nad to allow the people to make the choice about who the Donkeycrat nominee will be?

Since when does the north eastern Donkeycrat establishment and big money donors pick who the Donkeycrat presidential nominee will be? Makes you wonder why they bother with the primaries if the nominee is preselected anyway. :)

[kellyc]

I think they want to have a nominee that stands a chance against GW. Even I wouldnt vote for Howard Dean. He's way too out there for me. However he has done one thing, he has certainly energized the democratic party. It's okay John, I know your a closet Deaner. Its in you somewhere.

[johnb]

"What would have happened if Kuwait's main product was broccoli?" -Kelly

Kelly,

Do you really believe that the people of Kuwait deserved to have their nation invaded and occupied by the armed forces of a murderous military dictatorship? Does it matter whether Kuwait is sitting on an oil field or a vegetable patch? I thought you donkeycrats were all about freedom and peace and all that stuff....are the Kuwaiti's less deserving of freedom and peace than your or I?

Hate to be blunt, no I don't, but that tag line you use strikes me as being subtlely racist (Arabs don't deserve better than military dictatorships) and simultaneously anti-US. It was in our strategic interests to keep Saddam out of Kuwait. It was in Kuwait's interest and the world's. If you want to believe bad things about that sobeit.

[johnb]

I think they want to have a nominee that stands a chance against GW. Even I wouldnt vote for Howard Dean. He's way too out there for me.

Who's "they" Kelly? The northeastern Donkeycrat establishment? Within the Donkeycrat party is the voice of the northeastern establishment the only voice that matters? What about "let a thousand flowers bloom" and all that other tripe? What's the point of having primaries and caucuses if they don't really matter?

Do you really believe Kerry has a chance? If so, take whatever you are smoking and sell it.

Which brings up the next point, do the Donkeycrats have ANY values/principles aside from the unmitigated desire for power? I don't think so.

Dean? Too far out there for you? I don't believe that. NOW you say that, after the "I have a Scream" speech. Were you saying that in November or December? I don't think so.

[kellyc]

You have got to be kidding me. You really dont think that oil had something to do with our protection of "kuwait"? Pull your head out of the sand. Of all people to be that gullible...I expect a lot more out of you.

[johnb]

So the fact that Kuwait has oil means the Kuwaiti people deserve to be exterminated by a homicidal maniac?

Wow.

I stated rather explicitly that it was in our interests to keep Saddam out of Kuwait. I live in the grown up world Kelly. The world economy requires the free flow of oil. With that interupted the result would be horrific suffering and mass death in the third world and serious economic dislocation in the West. If you want to chant moronic Donkeycrat slogans such as "No blood for oil" go ahead, but you d@mn your own intellect.

[kellyc]

So the fact that Kuwait has oil means the Kuwaiti people deserve to be exterminated by a homicidal maniac?

Wow.

I stated rather explicitly that it was in our interests to keep Saddam out of Kuwait. I live in the grown up world Kelly. The world economy requires the free flow of oil. With that interupted the result would be horrific suffering and mass death in the third world and serious economic dislocation in the West. If you want to chant moronic Donkeycrat slogans such as "No blood for oil" go ahead, but you d@mn your own intellect.

I didnt say anything I just posed a question. Dont be so **** defensive. Why is it "racist" to ask a simple question? I think Saddam should have been booted out too, but I dont think our reaction would have been so quick if there wasn't oil involved.

Who leaked in your corn flakes today?

[kellyc]

....are the Kuwaiti's less deserving of freedom and peace than your or I?


So with your statement above, Im taking it that you think we need to get involved in these other countries too...I mean dont these people deserve freedom and peace too? Where is the sense of urgency here?

http://frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=11810

[kellyc]

I think, if Im not mistaken this was BEFORE the Screaming Speech. I dont believe I have ever said that I would vote for Dean. Or at least not without a smile on my face. I do think Kerry has a chance. He hasnt earned my vote yet, but neither has GW. If I had to vote today though I would certainly vote to boot GW out.



Posted: Tue Jan 13, 2004 10:22 am Post subject:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Honestly John,

I think I might would even pay some money to see a debate between Al Sharpton and George Bush. I think my sides would almost split open from laughter.

On a serious note...I really wish the democrats could give me someone to vote for. I like George Bush, but I detest the AG Ashcroft. He is the main reason I dont want to vote for GW. But no matter how angry I get at Ashcroft, I just couldnt vote for Howard Dean.

Kelly

[Wuptdo]

Kelly,

Just curious, but what is your beef with Ashcroft. He says lots of thinks to make the "ultra-right" happy, but really hasn't done anything - he just "there." If it is about the loss of "privacy" due to 9-11, just take a glance at this:

http://www.lib.byu.edu/~rdh/wwi/1918/usspy.html

Also, FDR and Truman made Wilson look like a boy scout with their violations of liberty they pulled. This is one of those issue that ebbs and flows with the times.

In reading this thread, two other thoughts come to mind:

"Free Tibet" & "Who killed Chandra Levy?" Don't know why.

Wuptdo B-)

[kellyc]

Kelly,

Just curious, but what is your beef with Ashcroft. He says lots of thinks to make the "ultra-right" happy, but really hasn't done anything - he just "there." If it is about the loss of "privacy" due to 9-11, just take a glance at this:

Wuptdo B-)

I dont particularly care for the patriot act and I think all trials should be open to a non partisan party. It doesnt have to be the press (I would prefer it be the press). I dont think any trial should be conducted in the cloak of secrecy.

Kelly

[johnb]

So with your statement above, Im taking it that you think we need to get involved in these other countries too...I mean dont these people deserve freedom and peace too? Where is the sense of urgency here?

To be blunt, I don't give a d@mn whether all or any Arab nation is democratic. Frankly, they can all be Islamofasict theocracies for all *I* care. Here's the tricky part though: just keep the mass murder within their own borders and confined to their own people. Saddam did neither. He invaded two neighboring states which led to wars in which millions of combatants died. He also subsidized terrorists in other nations (Hamas and Hezbollah and others) and was a destabilizing force in that region. As far as I am concerned that is more than sufficient justification for US forces to topple his regime, bust a cap or two in his sons faces, capture him and later execute his sorry existance.

You don't seem to understand the ideological baggage your left wing politics brings with it Kelly.

[kellyc]

Im not a left winger. Lets get that straight. Im probably closer to the middle than you are. Besides, I've never played a game of hockey in my life. Nor do I intend too.

Kelly

[johnb]

If I had to vote today though I would certainly vote to boot GW out.

Why? Are you angry that your kids can safely ride a school bus without you having to worry about some Islamofascist homicide bomber detonating himself in or near it?

The first battle in this war took place with sneak attacks against NYC, the Pentagon, and Shanksville, Penna. The front lines in this war are now in the middle east and not in the US. It is ashame you underestimate and don't appreciate the significance of that shift.

Your partys nominee, John Kerry Chamberlain, would give us a redux of Munich. We would end up with the battle lines right back here in America with our people, our children, being smeared on the sidewalks by homicide bombers the way Israeli men, women and children are slaughtered.

No thanks Kelly. Donkeycrats cannot be trusted on matters of national security. Especially not a Donkeycrat who wanted to cease development of, get rid of or seriously reduce the Apache helicopter, the Abrams M1 tank, the Bradley fighting vehicle (APC), the F15 and F16, the cruise missile, and almost every single military weapons system of the past 25 years.

[kellyc]

If I had to vote today though I would certainly vote to boot GW out.


Your partys nominee, John Kerry Chamberlain, would give us a redux of Munich. We would end up with the battle lines right back here in America with our people, our children, being smeared on the sidewalks by homicide bombers the way Israeli men, women and children are slaughtered.

No thanks Kelly. Donkeycrats cannot be trusted on matters of national security. Especially not a Donkeycrat who wanted to cease development of, get rid of or seriously reduce the Apache helicopter, the Abrams M1 tank, the Bradley fighting vehicle (APC), the F15 and F16, the cruise missile, and almost every single military weapons system of the past 25 years.

Please show where I stated that John Kerry was my party nominee? I believe I said I would vote to boot GW out. I believe I said that the democrats just couldnt give me someone I could vote for. I believe I would vote for another republican. I just dont like GW. Just that plain and simple. I dont like him. I like John McCain, I like (and voted for) Elizabeth Dole, I like Newt Gingerich, I like Richard Shelby and voted for John Sessions and Bob Riley all deep southern conservatives. Unlike you (it appears) I am not so stuck in one party that I cant pick and chose the things I do and dont support...regardless of what party supports or opposes it.

Kelly

[johnb]

Im not a left winger. Lets get that straight. Im probably closer to the middle than you are.

This from a Deaniac? LOL The way you jerk that left knee at all the right moments you sure do an excellent impersonation of one. Anyone that enamored of governmental control/action is suspect Kelly. You commentary on Bush is pretty conclusive. The little donkeys had ONE "mainstream" candidate. As Democrat Senator Zell Miller points out, that party has become property of extremists leftists, out of touch with the mainstream. That is the type of candidate they will have. The little donkeys have NO tolerance for deviation from the narrow ideology.

Bush and the GOP are "in the middle", the little donkeys are on the left or the extreme left. The "right" is populated by Libertarians these days.

(I had a chuckle out of the "loyalty oath" - to the Donkeycrat party, primary voters in South Carolina had to sign in the past primary.)

[kellyc]

WHere did I state I support Howard Dean? Im guessing you also get a chuckle out of the Western Wake Republican club? They make ya do the same.

From their website

Members shall not advocate a split party ticket

Members shall not actively support candidates running on an opponent ticket

Their mission statement:

Our Mission
To increase the effectiveness of citizens of Western Wake County in the cause of good government through active educational and political participation
To foster loyalty to the Republican Party and promote its principles and candidates in all elections, which includes non-partisan elections
To strengthen the two party system and increase membership in the Republican Party in the great State of North Carolina
To participate and support the National, State of North Carolina and local candidates for election

[johnb]

Please show where I stated that John Kerry was my party nominee?

Are you not a Donkeycrat in inclination if not in registration? You sure sound like a donkeycrat. :)

... I like Newt Gingerich...

Do you know what Newt's agenda in the House was? You claim to like "moderates", he was anything but.

"... deep southern conservatives."

We call them REPUBLICANS these days. :)

Unlike you (it appears) I am not so stuck in one party that I cant pick and chose the things I do and dont support...regardless of what party supports or opposes it.

Unlike me? LOL Sorry Kelly, I'm not a Republican. They're slightly less obnoxious than the little donkeys. My thought on the matter is that the more evil of the two parties needs to be defeated first.

[kellyc]

I think they are both evil parties. If I could make one change in this country it would be to wipe clean Washington. Anyone that has ever held /ran for political office or worked on a political campaign would be barred for the next 8 years. There has to be another 535 people out in the country that can get up there and set this country on a better path. The ones there now can not be the only ones that this country has to offer.

When I vote I tend to prefer to error on the side of a Republican, because it is something I can live with for 4 years if I dont like it. Unfortunately I just dont like GW.

Kelly

[johnb]

Members shall not actively support candidates running on an opponent ticket

That is immaterial. They have no power to compel anyone to sign a "loyalty oath" prior to voting in a primary or general election. Whatever rules/conditions they wish to apply to their members is their business.

What the South Carolina Donkeycrat party did is a violation of the Voting Rights Act and they will be punished for it by the Department of Justice.


What is odd though, is that the RINO did in fact violate their rules, I wonder if they'll help her next election attempt?

[kellyc]

What is odd though, is that the RINO did in fact violate their rules, I wonder if they'll help her next election attempt?

I think I heard they did vote to boot her and came up a vote short.

Kelly

[Wuptdo]

Going back to the orginal story. I remember many years ago, one of Hillary Clinton's favorite things to talk about was the "vast right-wing" conspiracy against her husband. This article implies almost a "vast left-wing" conspiracy to control the democratic party and the nomination process. However, who actually controls the democratic party? I don't watch too much "talking heads" TV, but I got the impression that the Clintons still control the Party and the money. Is the Kerry/Kennedy camp trying to wrestle control back to them? Are we witnessing a paradigm shift? I don't know where the convention is going to be this year, but I would love to see a repeat of Chicago, 1968.

Seeking knowledge to gain wisdom.

Wuptdo B-)

[johnb]

One can hope wuptdo....it would be great to see the Deaniacs storm the convention. The Donkeycrats are not a sled team pulling towards a commone goal, they are a gaggle of rabid dogs fighting over the corpse of the party. Frankly, I'd love to see the labor bosses going after the greenies, the abortion absolutists driving anyone less ideologically pure from their ranks, they all hate each other and have different agendas, even contradictory agendas.

[johnb]

It's happening....

http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/005955.php

The Deaniacs are having to make a choice.....compromise their so called "integrity" and line up behind the candidate, Kerry, who torpedoed Dr Dean or go elsewhere. Looks like the initial shock and awe of the barbequeing of Dr Dean's candidacy has a lot of them going green or going home. Either way works.

Now all that needs to happen is for Kerry to be Kerry...he's such an arrogant, elitist sleazebag he'll drive them off the reservation so fast and so far he'll never get their votes.