Gangs in Cary

[Laurie]

http://abclocal.go.com/wtvd/news/030305_NW_windyhunter.html

"Hunter says the new chief will face some challenges."

"Another issue is the increase in gang violence that we're beginning to see, as well as our neighboring communities are starting to see. We're certainly not immune from that."

Didn't they use the absence of gangs to justify eliminating SROs? And isn't Cary the only group to NOT participate in the local gang task force?

[Wuptdo]

Funny Laurie that you would mention gangs. Twice now, in the last six weeks, I have noticed a group of young adult males hanging out at CiCi's Pizza. They hang out by the door as you are heading out. Beside the "gang" activity at CiCi's the level of service (went from bad to worse) and overall cleanliness has really gone down the tubes. Their last food inspection score was 85.5. We will no longer eating there.

Added: My understanding was that the SRO's that were being moved back into regular duty, so they could free up other officers for "gang" duty. Did I miss the boat somewhere?

Wuptdo B-)

[Brent]

Didn't they use the absence of gangs to justify eliminating SROs?

Yes, at least partially. In spite of the fact that a citizen stood up and told them about a gang altar at a local elementary school, and in spite of another citizen (who is a retired cop and member of the Wake County Gang Violence Prevention Task Force) who stood up and told them that gang violence was an increasing local problem and that keeping the SROs was one very good way to mitigate that problem.

Those who voted to eliminate SROs should be ashamed.


And isn't Cary the only group to NOT participate in the local gang task force?

Yes. Why wouldn't they participate? They've been invited. Is it a case of denial?

[Brent]

Added: My understanding was that the SRO's that were being moved back into regular duty, so they could free up other officers for "gang" duty. Did I miss the boat somewhere?

They moved SROs to other "regular" patrol duties. I don't recall that it was specifically "gang" duty.

But an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.

[Wuptdo]

Brent wrote:


They moved SROs to other "regular" patrol duties. I don't recall that it was specifically "gang" duty.


Ok, I don't recall where I did get my info, but somewhere I heard (Budget meetings?) that Cary PD was going to form a "gang" work force. Added to that, it was known that at least nine gangs are operating in Western Wake. I remember making postings on CP about : 1) hiring an officer from Mexico to assist Cary PD with mexican gangs (and Spanish), 2) making sure that Task Force was something like from "The Shield" (kick-butt Cops). The only thing that gangs understand is force, and I have no problem with excessive force! :twisted:

Brent wrote:


But an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.

How true. It is too bad that the Federal Government won't do their jobs and enforce immigration laws, especially INS and Border Patrol. Because of their inaction, we have to pay for it locally (in many ways).

Wuptdo B-)

[Brent]

Wup, I cannot recall those specifics, although I am old and forgetful. I did find these at townofcary.org:

From Nov. 9, 2004 council work session minutes http://www.townofcary.org/agenda/councilmin04/ws110904.htm :


Mr. Roseland asked about the current status of gang activity in Cary and what the council can do to lessen the amount of that activity. Chief Hunter stated that gang activity is related to a particular area of Town and that a team has been assigned to work with the residents in that area forming community watch and surveillance. He said that the department continually monitors and addresses those issues as they arise; they are trying other proactive activities to get youth involved in more positive pursuits.

and

From June 24, 2004 council work session minutes http://www.townofcary.org/agenda/councilmin04/ws062104.htm :


ACTION: Mr. Joyce made a motion to keep the funding in the budget for the high school and middle school SROs, but not the elementary schools. Mayor Pro Tem Smith provided the second.

Mr. Roseland said he is going to vote against the motion. He said more police officers are needed, along with a gang unit and a computer crime unit to ensure we keep the rating for the safest city in the southeast. He said the numbers don’t make sense to him and there are other concerns outside of SROs that need to be addressed. He said the Town should be expanding police resources, not reducing them.

ACTION: Vote was called for and Mayor McAlister, Mayor Pro Tem Smith, Mrs. Robinson and Mr. Joyce voted “aye.” Ms. Dorrel, Mrs. Robison and Mr. Roseland voted “no.” The motion was approved by majority vote.

Shame on the "ayes"!

And when I talked about prevention, I meant elementary SROs as the preventive mechanism.

[kellyc]

I think they use the Impact team to target areas where crime is picking up, whether that is by gangs or high school band members. The impact team is mainly the bicycle team, and that appeared to have included the soon to be new canine cop.

About the gangs...so far the gangs seem to be mainly hispanic gangs although I have hear their are some fringe bloods and crips. So while we have seedling gangs they havent quite gotten to the level that they see in Raleigh and in Durham. However the key to keeping these guys out, relies not only on the cops but the citizens as well.

We gotta start standing up and saying that not only are those folks not welcome in our town, but if you do come to Cary and screw up...we are going to have you put in jail.

Kelly...who just got the crap scared out of her by not one but TWO owls in her backyard.

[kellyc]

Ok, I don't recall where I did get my info, but somewhere I heard (Budget meetings?) that Cary PD was going to form a "gang" work force. Added to that, it was known that at least nine gangs are operating in Western Wake. I remember making postings on CP about : 1) hiring an officer from Mexico to assist Cary PD with mexican gangs (and Spanish), 2) making sure that Task Force was something like from "The Shield" (kick-butt Cops). The only thing that gangs understand is force, and I have no problem with excessive force! :twisted:


Wup they did send a couple of their officers down to Mexico for a lengthy Spanish E(I)mmersion class. The guys on the bikes are some of their toughest officers. I know one of them have the ability to lift a man off the ground with his belt. They really are some of the top line officers on the force. Sometimes they are at the council meetings and my suggestion would be to go introduce yourself and ask what you can do to help their cause. This is not just a police issue, the community must be involved to the level that they want to stop the gangs.

Kelly <who wonders if the Impact team will come do something about these owls.

[Wuptdo]

Well, look what was on the news tonight:

http://abclocal.go.com/wtvd/news/030305_NW_carygangs.html


Who knows, with a little training, maybe they can decorate all of Cary's bridges. :roll:

Wuptdo B-)

[Denis]

How long before that crap becomes a protected art form, with grants from our tax money to buy spray paint.

[kellyc]

Well, look what was on the news tonight:

http://abclocal.go.com/wtvd/news/030305_NW_carygangs.html


Who knows, with a little training, maybe they can decorate all of Cary's bridges. :roll:

Wuptdo B-)

Wup

I think the police have a responsibility here but so does the community. In our neighborhood we started having some problems with the Habitat for Humanity kids. The thing is not to wait for the problems to get unmanagable. So the neighbors who are closest to where the problems were occuring started calling the city and the cops on every little thing, whether it was a car sitting on the street with no tags or people driving thru the neigborhood too fast. The key is to let those thugs know if your are going to try and do your business in our neighborhood we are watching, and we are going to call the cops. Thats why I say the community must get just aas involved as the police department.

[Wuptdo]

Kelly - agreed.

But the community needs to do more. I have written Congressman Price numerous times about the issue of illegal aliens. Most of the time, all I get back is a "Thank you for your input" response. When a few other minor issues are off the burner, I'm going to make the illegal aliens issue a real issue in local politics. Everything starts locally and works it way to the top. We as a community can afford to wait.

Wuptdo B-)

[kellyc]

Wup,

I think you have addressed part of the problem, but I see the bigger problem as absentee landlords and not paying attention to what is going on in their home. I really think that dealing with rentals is going to be a very big issue in the very near future. Someone has got to hold these landlords feet to the fire.

By the way I hate calling the police about stupid stuff like that, but you have to.

[washere]

Wup,

I think you have addressed part of the problem, but I see the bigger problem as absentee landlords and not paying attention to what is going on in their home. I really think that dealing with rentals is going to be a very big issue in the very near future. Someone has got to hold these landlords feet to the fire.
Kelly-
Any suggestions on laws/ordinances that would do that? I think that's a great idea, but I don't know what you could say/do ordinance-wise that could practically accomplish that.

I'd be more than happy to pass your suggestions along to the appropriate people with the RRAR (who recently lobbied successfully to require landlord's managing a certain number of homes to be licensed). The CTC and the CPD are important parts of this, but getting the local board of Realtors involved could really put some muscle behind the issue.

[kellyc]

All non-apartment landlords should be required to electronically register with the town.

They should then submit a document that simply and clearly shows who is responsible for the maintenance of the house (internally and externally) and what that maintenance consist of. Lets face it, people move here from different areas of the world, and it may just be that they have a different concept of "clean". Maybe in their home country people thought it was okay to throw food out the back window, instead of the trash can. The document would need to be signed by both parties and notarized and turned into the city.

Then somehow the town needs to make it in the financial intrest of the landlord to make sure that document is met. Whether its thru fines equal to monthly rents or 1000 dollars whichever is greater. Until these folks feel financial pain, they wont care.

I would see it as this..If I have a rental house beside me, and as a realtor you are trying to sell my home...if the tenant is not going to keep up their property, its going to cost you just as much as it is me.

And while I doubt it would ever happen, if a landlord rents a home to a person, that is subsequently arrested and convicted of selling drugs, if you continue to allow that person to stay in your rental home, the second time the person gets busted..you should go to jail too for the same crime.

Edited to change a couple of words

[Wuptdo]

Kelly - I hope your hubby and kids appreciate that fine mind of yours. A most excellent posting about the problem with landlords. I would be happy if the town would make the apartments enforce the occupancy requirements; i.e., 3 women, 8 kids living in a 2 bedroom, 1 bathroom apartment.

Question: Do the apartments around here have separate water meters, per apartment, or is it included in the "rent"?

Wuptdo B-)

[kellyc]

Most apartments include it in the rent, however there are some that dont. I'd like to see apartment complexes held to the same standard, but I think it would get chaotic at best.

Those occupancy requirements are really tough for them to get...especially with college kids...If their cars are still in their folks name..then they can easily claim they are just visiting.

I dont know how we push the apartment complexes because its a double edge sword. That is where a lot of the gangs hang out. The problem is that people that care wont live there, and they have to rent them out or else they will go under. I have no idea how to fix that.

[Wuptdo]

Kelly - some major issues to be dealt with. The trouble is that too many folks are asleep at the wheel.

Recommendation: Citizens Task Force

A few people sitting around a table somewhere can come up with some good recommendations and present to council (and the press). Even if the TF is not annoited by the CTC, still doesn't mean we can meet.

Power to the People!

Wuptdo B-)

[Brent]

Recommendation: Citizens Task Force

A few people sitting around a table somewhere can come up with some good recommendations and present to council (and the press). Even if the TF is not annoited by the CTC, still doesn't mean we can meet.

Power to the People!

Great idea! And a refreshing alternative to the usual town response: hire a consultant. :roll:

[washere]

Like I said before, feel free to funnel any input/ideas through me, and I'll contact the appropriate people on the board of Realtors.

If they think it's truly a problem that could affect the real estate market, believe me they'll act. Like I said before, it wouldn't be the first time the board pushed through ordinances to crack down on landlords.

[Laurie]

The thing is not to wait for the problems to get unmanagable. So the neighbors who are closest to where the problems were occuring started calling the city and the cops on every little thing... The key is to let those thugs know if your are going to try and do your business in our neighborhood we are watching, and we are going to call the cops. That's why I say the community must get just as involved as the police department.

This only works if the cops will respond. We have a group of unsupervised boys in our neighborhood who get into mischief at times. One day they were setting things on fire in the middle of the street and throwing fire crackers in the storm sewer. I pull up right beside them in my car, roll down the window and ask what they are doing. They make no effort to hide or stop what they are doing. I call the police nonemergency number and they tell me to call the water department. What's the water department supposed to do? I was hoping the police would nip it in the bud. Maybe they'll respond when the kids move on to more serious crimes like vandalism or car breakins.

[Laurie]

I would be happy if the town would make the apartments enforce the occupancy requirements; i.e., 3 women, 8 kids living in a 2 bedroom, 1 bathroom apartment.

And how many cars should one house be allowed to park in the street? One house in our neighborhood has 8 cars, with most in the street, routinely parked at it. And another house has had more than 10 cars parked in the driveway, yard and street for some time. Not all of them move.

[washere]

Man Laurie...guess I'd better withdrawl that offer I've got in on the house across the street from you guys. 8O :lol:

[Wuptdo]

Laurie - Thanks for the postings on the cars. I thought that was a "Raleigh" problem, especially with all the rental properties. Yes, the car thing should come under "Zoning." But not sure. I know up in Person County, any untagged vehicle must be "parked" out of sight of the road. Geez, this is getting better all the time.

People sharing information -- to some this could be dangerous.

Wuptdo B-)

[kellyc]

Correct Wup, and any car with an expired tag or inspection sticker must be off the street. They also cant be within certain distances of mailboxes, stopsigns and most importantly fire hydrants. And yes if you call the police about them, they will not be overly thrilled about the call....but they will respond and deal with it. The key is to go after them all, make it extremely difficult for them to keep their cars on the street, and make them learn the rules.

[johnb]

They make no effort to hide or stop what they are doing. I call the police nonemergency number and they tell me to call the water department. What's the water department supposed to do? I was hoping the police would nip it in the bud. Maybe they'll respond when the kids move on to more serious crimes like vandalism or car breakins.

That's when you whip out the video recorder. Since they don't care they won't stop. The recorded evidence really can't be denied. Copy it and forward it to the police, their parents and the news media. Since they're doing it on a public street their right to privacy is effectively forfeited.

[Wuptdo]

We are eating kid's dinner tonight - Mac&cheese and LittleSmokies (Mrs. Wup is in Florida). Doorbell rings. Some dude at the door from some organization (D&T I think). It is based in Durham, and helps kids with problems, and dealing with gangs, etc., etc. Anyway, I have already tuned him out when he said Durham. I told him that I supported youth groups in Cary, but not Durham. "But sir, don't you understand that Durham is part of your greater community and you have an obligation to help them as well." Sorry, no, Cary is my community, not Durham. "Well sir, you obiviously don't care about children," and he walked off. He did have his Cary "permit."
I went back to dinner. :roll:

Wuptdo B-)

[Lurkie]

If Mr. Wup is in Florida, who is "sir" :roll: that person at the door is soliciting?

[Karen]

Lurkie, it's MRS. Wup who's in FL.

Wup, same dude came to our house last night. Didn't answer the first 2 rings, but he was quite persistant and rang a third time. I gave in and brought my dogs out with me to speak with him. I graciously declined his solicitation and he graciously left. :wink:

Karen

[Anonymous]

A principal source for gang activity is unchecked immigration. Along with people, gangs are smuggling in drugs and as recently reported, weapons. A related story follows...

http://www.alipac.us/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=271

ALIPAC: Please forward, post, and distribute this article.
By Nathan Tabor
The Conservative Voice
3/16/2005
Topics: Security, PTI, Illegal Labor, Laws, Congress, NCDMV, Licenses

I recently read about a very disturbing incident that happened just last week — literally in my own back yard. Federal agents arrested 27 illegal immigrants at the Piedmont/Triad International Airport in Greensboro, North Carolina, not very far from where I live.

Read the latest headlines about illegal immigration.

What were these guys doing when they were arrested? They were working on commercial jet airliners! You know, like the ones that al Qaeda terrorists flew into the Twin Towers on 9-11. This strikes me as a pretty lax approach to national security.

These 27 men originally came from a variety of countries, including Sudan, Chile, Peru, Zimbabwe, the Philippines, Venezuela, Mexico, and Laos. But they had one thing in common: they almost all possessed valid North Carolina driver’s licenses — as well as other documents including airplane-repair licenses, phony Social Security documents, counterfeit green cards, and even a falsified passport.

Were these illegal aliens really terrorists? Probably not; at least there’s no evidence of that so far. But the problem is, any one of them could have been. Remember, the 9-11 hijackers used state-issued driver’s licenses to board the planes.

“Practically everybody we arrest has a North Carolina driver’s license on them,” said Thomas O’Connell of U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement. Lots of people even come from other states, because under liberal Gov. Mike Easley, it’s really easy to get North Carolina licenses. Now, that really makes my Tarheel heart swell with pride. I’m waiting on the bumper sticker that reads “It’s Eas-l-ey in NC for Illegals.”

Do you know what is even more disturbing to me about this incident? The fact that YOU most likely didn’t even read about it. You see, as of Monday, March 14, the story about these 27 illegal airport workers had only run inside of North Carolina and in one paper in South Carolina.

What’s more, in the official AP wire story that did run, the lead paragraph was NOT about the national security threat of having illegal aliens working on jet airliners at an international airport inside the heartland of America. Rather, it was about how leaders of El Pueblo, a so-called “Hispanic advocacy group,” were going to Washington to protest the potential passage of the “Real ID Act” in Congress next month.

“If something like Real ID passed, it would be devastating for many in our community,” said Andrea Bazan Manson, director of the Raleigh-based group that organized the lobbying effort to protest tougher regulations against giving licenses to illegals. These Hispanic activists believe the proposed law “unfairly targets hardworking immigrants and could result in public safety problems,” according to AP.

Public safety problems? Imagine that! Who can tell me what is wrong with this picture?

“Illegal immigration is exactly as the title implies; it is illegal,” explains the website of Americans for Legal Immigration (ALI-PAC). “If three-fourths of America’s legal citizens want illegal immigration curtailed, and the laws are in place to facilitate their wishes through a constitutional democracy, then why is America experiencing the largest population increase through illegal immigration in our history?” That’s a very good question that deserves an honest answer.

What does the face of illegal immigration look like? Well, to most, illegal immigrants are those who work in agriculture, construction, landscaping and manufacturing jobs. Basically, they perform hard manual labor that requires a lot of physical strength. That is a stereotype.

Being from North Carolina, the tobacco and furniture capital of the world, I have seen these workers firsthand. There is one fact nobody can question: they do work hard. That’s precisely why many people want these illegal workers here and are lobbying hard for laws to let them stay.

These intruders have some good attributes, like hard work, but they are still here in America illegally. That very fact constitutes a threat, not to mention an economic liability, for our country. Giving illegal aliens government-issued IDs is simply wrong. They are breaking our laws and we are rewarding them for doing so.

The “face” of illegal immigration is definitely changing. The stereotype of all illegal immigrants being manual laborers is clearly false. The incident at PTI Airport illustrates that fact. The FAA has to train and certify these aircraft technicians. Proper security and screening never should have let this incident happen.

That is the first part of the story. The second might even be worse. We have CEOs of big companies who have an affair with their secretaries, and that makes national front page news. Yet, when illegal aliens with false documents are found to be secretly working on jet airplanes, that story passes under the radar screen without even a blip.

Are we trying to revisit September 11th?

Copyright © 2005 by Nathan Tabor

Nathan Tabor is a conservative political activist

[Laurie]

http://abclocal.go.com/wtvd/news/030905_NW_wakegangs.html

"Wake County school security officials tell Eyewitness News there is some sort of gang presence in every high school and most middle schools."

"Nearly 2,000 students in Wake County are identified as being in a gang."

[kellyc]

How do you count gang members?

[Anonymous]

Hire a consultant from out of town

[StanN]

http://www.townofcary.org/pd/pl05032.htm

stan

[Laurie]

How do you count gang members?

1, 2, 3, ...

Couldn't resist.

[Denis]

Ya but what happens when they run out of little piggies? (pun intended)

[kellyc]

How do you count gang members?

1, 2, 3, ...

Couldn't resist.

Too funny....think they sent out a survey? Are you in a gang? Define gang.

[Anonymous]

We can help the issue by supporting http://wakebgc.org/

[Wuptdo]

Off-topic:

Denis wrote:


run out of little piggies?

Just reminded me of something very weird coming out of California. Dr. Hauser over a Cary Foot Clinic (two thumbs up)was checking out an old injury (this was a few days ago). Anyway, we were talking about new "fads" going on in the world. This is a little gross, but young women in California are having their "little piggy" toes removed, so their feet can fit into the new "pointly" shoes. I wonder how soon foot binding will come back?

Wuptdo B-)

[Laurie]

We can help the issue by supporting http://wakebgc.org/

You can help the issue by putting the SROs back in the elementary schools. Oh yeah, Cary needed that money for a dog park and water squirters.

[johnb]

Now Laurie, why you gotta be a playa hatur?

Cary NEEDS an off leash doggie park, even though a commercial alternative already exists in the city of Cary, and the dog owners that use it should not have to pay for it because, well because they don't want to.

Isn't that more important than the children?