Native American Team Mascots

[Brent]

Today's N&O has a story about the PC folks going after schools whose mascots/team names are deemed offensive to Native Americans.

I'm always one for pot-stirring. Is this something we need to eradicate? Is it the next thing Nels will want to ban? Is it offensive/insulting? Is it none of anyone's business?

[johnb]

Screw 'em....name the schools after European cultures only...


-Celts
-Vikings
-Conquistadors
-Scots
-Teutonic Knights
-Huns
-Romans


etc....etc....it'd be a great way to spread awareness like never before abou the diversity of European culture.

:twisted:

[SteveG]

If I were Native American, I do not think I would be upset at the use of Indian names and mascots. However, I can imagine that some of the caricature drawings of mascots would appear over the top. Any mascot will be a caricature of sorts, but I don't see real-life cowboys offended by the Dallas cheerleaders. I think there are subtleties to the depiction, such as whether or not caricature attempts to make common genetic features of an ethnic group look bad, that affect its interpretation. And of course members of an ethinic group will always get away with having fun with that ethnicity where others might not. Is there some opposition to Bill Cosby's Fat Albert gang with which I am unaware?

Steve Goodridge

(edited to fix spelling)

[Brent]

According to the story, the chief complainer is not a native American himself.

[Anonymous]

The Washington Redskins: Fine Name for a Team or Symbol of Oppression?
Point/Counterpoint with our columnists

Point: Manservant, Hand me a Tomahawk!
By J. Grumpus Stickinbutt

http://www.posmoroda.com/images/171_Photo1.jpg

Let me tell you, the Washington Redskins are a fine American institution. The God-fearing, morally upstanding conservative citizens of this great nation have no problem with a little war whoopin’ and face paintin’, so long as it’s done in the name of the manly sport of American football (it’s when those weirdos down in New Orleans paint their faces for “Mar-dee-graw” that the problems start). I’m proud to un-recline my La-Z-Boy and do the “tomahawk chop” with my manservant. If it’s good enough for Jack Kent Cooke and me, then it’s dadgummed good enough for little “Ms.” Leftist Jane Fonda, who thinks she has to make excuses to her long-haired hippy freak friends.

Dadgummit, this politically correct liberal namby-pamby easily offended crowd has gone too far this time. If God didn’t want us to call our fine American teams “Redskins”, then he wouldn’t have given us Indians, or “native Americans” or whatever they’re calling themselves these days. If these leftist pinkos succeed in making the Washington Redskins knuckle under, then they’ll be sorry to find out that J. Grumpus Stickinbutt (yours truly) is leading the effort to rename a few other teams: The San Diego Brownskins, the San Francisco Yellowskins and the Detroit Blackskins. I suppose that the Whiteskins will have to call BYU home.

Why, if we let these people get away with this, the next thing you know they’ll be trying to change the name of the team at our local private school for the children of wealthy Northeast industrialists (the Fighting Caucasians). Next thing you know, the PETA nutjobs will be going after the teams named for dogs and cats.

Do you know what these PC busybody left-wingers are? If you said “sick and depraved”, then you’re dadgummed right.

J. Grumpus Stickinbutt – of the Upstuck Stickinbutts – is a fan of the New England Patriots (“a dadgummed good name for a team”) but supports the right of wealthy old-money blue-blooded team owners to name their teams after any ethnic group they darn well please. He didn’t play football himself, but he was one of those guys with the megaphones at his alma mater, Pottingham University (“old P.U”, home of the Rednecked Whiteskin Blue Collars). Stickinbutt’s exposé of professional sports, That Dadgummed Bud Selig is Sick and Depraved, is being considered for adaptation as a Broadway musical.

Counterpoint: Paleface Oppressors
By Moonglow Love-Birkenstock

http://www.posmoroda.com/images/203_birkenstock.jpg

Sports isn’t really my scene, but if the old right-wing extremist Mr. Stickinmud thinks that “Redskins” is a good name, then it must be a bad trip. I think that there are, like, plenty of groovy names for sports teams without resorting to bigoted pre-1960s unenlightened slurs. My red-skinned native American friends have lived with oppression from THE MAN long enough. Set them free, set them free! We shall overcome!

So you can be sure that at our weekly sit-in protest, we will not only be protesting the beef and fur industries, but also the Washington Redskins. Anyone who wants to get into the administration building is going to have to use the back door, because we’ll be taking over the front steps with our “Animals are People Too!” posters. We’ll be giving the “Red Power” sign while chanting “Al Gore Won Florida / Cheney looks like a Bug!”.

“Heat” and “Jazz” are OK team names, but I can come up with plenty of better ones. How about the “Flower People”? Or the “Acid Trippers”? Here are just a few more: “Giant Bongs”, “Purple Hazes”, “Fighting Rumsfelds”, “Warmongering Bushes”. I could just go on and on.

Here’s what I have to say to the Washington Redskins: “How does it feel? How does it feel? To be on your own. With no direction home. Like a complete unknown. Like a rolling stone.”.

Peace.


MS. Moonglow Love-Birkenstock has attended two lacrosse matches during her 38 years as a student at UC-Berkeley. She believes that football is a waste of hairy, sweaty men with great bods. Ms. Love-Birkenstock is a supporting cast member in the long-running UC-B musical that pays tribute to what she believes is the most important of the cultural contributions of Native Americans (“Peyote!”, now playing at in the San Mateo amphitheater) .

[Don]

LOL!!!!!! Good one "satirist"

[Don]

If I were Native American, I do not think I would be upset at the use of Indian names and mascots. However, I can imagine that some of the caricature drawings of mascots would appear over the top. Any mascot will be a caricature of sorts, but I don't see real-life cowboys offended by the Dallas cheerleaders. I think there are subtleties to the depiction, such as whether or not caricature attempts to make common genetic features of an ethnic group look bad, that affect its interpretation. And of course members of an ethinic group will always get away with having fun with that ethnicity where others might not. Is there some opposition to Bill Cosby's Fat Albert gang with which I am unaware?

Steve Goodridge

(edited to fix spelling)

What caricatures of mascots could be considered offensive Steve? All of the ones I can think of depict the macot, heritage, or team in a powerful or proud fashion. If I were a native american (which since I was born here makes me one IMHO), I would be proud that a school or sports organization chose my heritage as their mascot.

What about the Notre Dame Fighting Irish? Doesn't that insult Irishmen?
What about Miami Dolphins? Poor little exploited fish!
Apex Cougars? Florida Seminoles? Atlanta Braves?

If you removed the names of every team that someone or group considered offensive, their would be no team with any name. You could go watch the Carolina Nothings play the Ottowa No Names at the RBC Center though. Woo Hoo!

[SteveG]

What caricatures of mascots could be considered offensive Steve? All of the ones I can think of depict the macot, heritage, or team in a powerful or proud fashion. If I were a native american (which since I was born here makes me one IMHO), I would be proud that a school or sports organization chose my heritage as their mascot.

Years ago, it was common to see native american team mascots drawn with caricatures that greatly exaggerated facial features and expressions to make them look somewhat grotesque, or stupid, i.e. the sub-human "savage". I think it's predictable that native americans would find those a bit disturbing. As a result, most of those mascots have been updated to look more positive. Many are still obvious cartoons, in some cases caricatures, but they are drawn in a more appealing style, similar to those of anglo mascots.

Some native american team mascots are drawn wearing decorations or carrying weapons that are not historically accurate for the relevant tribes. I suppose that could be likened to drawing the Fighting Irish in kilts. Maybe not so offensive as disappointing.

I know some native americans object to all use of indian mascots, but that may be more about (over?) sensitivity to past abuse than any objective look at a current mascot.

-Steve (who actually preferred the old anthropomorphic "Wolf in a sweater" to the newer savage-style Wolfpack logo for NSCU)

[johnb]

I'd rather see a trio of wolves "savagely" ripping a fawn apart while it's still alive actually. Nature can't be immoral. ;)

[Don]

I'd rather see a trio of wolves "savagely" ripping a fawn apart while it's still alive actually. Nature can't be immoral. ;)


Find that happy place John. Please! :wink:

[Don]

As a result, most of those mascots have been updated to look more positive.

Exactly.


Some native american team mascots are drawn wearing decorations or carrying weapons that are not historically accurate for the relevant tribes. I suppose that could be likened to drawing the Fighting Irish in kilts. Maybe not so offensive as disappointing.

It's football and baseball, not a history class. They're mascots. The Houstan Texans have a goofy looking bull named TORO. I don't hear the Texans (people who live in Texas) complaining. I hear what you're saying, I just don't think their is anything out there that's offensive or really even disappointing. The little Irish dude with his fists up is a cool mascot.

Hey, what's up with the Yankees? How come they get a team and the "Southerners" don't? That's not fair! :wink:


-Steve (who actually preferred the old anthropomorphic "Wolf in a sweater" to the newer savage-style Wolfpack logo for NSCU)

ya, me too.

[johnb]

Oh come on Don, might as well have those cute and cuddly wolves doing things wolves actually do.....


...that could be problematic couldn't it???

[SteveG]

Oh come on Don, might as well have those cute and cuddly wolves doing things wolves actually do.....

...that could be problematic couldn't it???

But college sports is promoted as entertainment for the whole family. How much implied violence is appropriate?

Wolves do other things in nature too...should we depict everything that happens in nature in our mascots, or might here be room for tasteful discretion?

-Steve, University of New Hampshire 1991 (Go Wildcats in Heat!) NCSU 1994, 1997

[Don]

But college sports is promoted as entertainment for the whole family. How much implied violence is appropriate?

I don't think their is any implied violence with a mascot holding a spear, tomohawk, or gun. I don't think there is much implied violence from the chant at a Florida Seminoles game. It's to pump the teams up. Sports for centuries have provided that need to battle (competition) using balls, bats, whatever instead of weapons. Why not name the team after great warriors, explorers, regions, etc. and make them look as if they are going to battle? It just adds to the effect. A few rally monkeys, foam tomohawks, or cheeseheads never hurt anybody. :wink: I don't think any team picked it's name or designed it's mascot with the intent to disrespect.


Wolves do other things in nature too...should we depict everything that happens in nature in our mascots, or might here be room for tasteful discretion?

tasteful discretion is good.

Don Frantz (picking Duke to win, Coach K is the MAN!)

[johnb]

" Your School Sucks "

Anyway, oh, I don't know Steve, certain portions of society are hell bent on forcing children to confront subjects normal people deem age inappropriate for, say 4th graders and that's just WCPSS employees on the topic of sex ed.

I'm just expanding on this "keeping it real" theme.

New Hampshire? A New England Yankee among us?

[/b][/quote]

[SteveG]

I don't think their is any implied violence with a mascot holding a spear, tomohawk, or gun. I don't think there is much implied violence from the chant at a Florida Seminoles game. It's to pump the teams up. Sports for centuries have provided that need to battle (competition) using balls, bats, whatever instead of weapons. Why not name the team after great warriors, explorers, regions, etc. and make them look as if they are going to battle? It just adds to the effect. A few rally monkeys, foam tomohawks, or cheeseheads never hurt anybody. :wink: I don't think any team picked it's name or designed it's mascot with the intent to disrespect.

Everything about rallying sports fans for the home team involves such groupthink, oversimplification, mindless jumping-on-the-bandwagon that nobody should be surprised that political correctness and historical accuracy receive zero weight. If the ultimate goal is to clobber the opposition physically and mentally, a few slightly hurt feelings from members of the minority group referred to by the mascot will be easily ignored. That's why I think the evolution of mascots has already removed the most egregious, derogatory depictions of minorities, at least in most places, while the less offensive historic stereotypes and icons will linger on.

-Steve (whose childhood dresser mirror, which was originally his father's from the 1940s, featured a decal of the team mascot for Melrose, MA. It was a rather non-flattering picture of an indian whose nose rivaled the size of his tomahawk, and dressed in an outfit that would not be worn by New England tribes. It was eventually updated.)

[Cathy]

Everything about rallying sports fans for the home team involves such groupthink, oversimplification, mindless jumping-on-the-bandwagon that nobody should be surprised that political correctness and historical accuracy receive zero weight. If the ultimate goal is to clobber the opposition physically and mentally, a few slightly hurt feelings from members of the minority group referred to by the mascot will be easily ignored.

Sounds a bit like partisan politics.

[Brent]

Good one Cathy!!! :-D