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Thread: Increased Traffic Light Density on N. Harrison Ave

  1. #1
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    Default Increased Traffic Light Density on N. Harrison Ave

    Yesterday while exiting I-40 onto N. Harrison I counted 8 lights (yes, there are now 8 lights) between I-40 and Reedy Creek Rd, a mere 1.3 mi stretch. This works out to .16 mi per light. Whereas this may sound great for rush hour it becomes problematic during off-peak periods since they are often not synchronized. Just a few years ago there were only 4 lights in this stretch and my commute time to RTP then is now sometimes equilvalent to the time it now takes to get onto I-40 in the morning. So imagine this evening commute coming from Raleigh taking a left onto Harrison Ave. to go home: I-40 light #1 >> I-40 Light #2 >> SAS light #1 >> Shopping Center light >> Weston Ave light >> SAS Light #2 light >> Cary Academy & Cary Parkway light >> Reedy Creek light. At what point does light placement begin to impede the throughput of traffic? Are there other areas in Cary that have a similar level of traffic light density (i.e. Kildaire Farm Road?) Is there a certain point where enough is enough?

  2. #2
    DarylB Guest

    Default Re: Increased Traffic Light Density on N. Harrison Ave

    Quote Originally Posted by Darryl
    Yesterday while exiting I-40 onto N. Harrison I counted 8 lights (yes, there are now 8 lights) between I-40 and Reedy Creek Rd, a mere 1.3 mi stretch. This works out to .16 mi per light. Whereas this may sound great for rush hour it becomes problematic during off-peak periods since they are often not synchronized. Just a few years ago there were only 4 lights in this stretch and my commute time to RTP then is now sometimes equilvalent to the time it now takes to get onto I-40 in the morning. So imagine this evening commute coming from Raleigh taking a left onto Harrison Ave. to go home: I-40 light #1 >> I-40 Light #2 >> SAS light #1 >> Shopping Center light >> Weston Ave light >> SAS Light #2 light >> Cary Academy & Cary Parkway light >> Reedy Creek light. At what point does light placement begin to impede the throughput of traffic? Are there other areas in Cary that have a similar level of traffic light density (i.e. Kildaire Farm Road?) Is there a certain point where enough is enough?
    Obviously you haven't signed onto Stan's "growth is fantastic" philosophy, where he envisions five or ten traffic lights per block... heck , there's still room along that 1.3 mile stretch for 20 0r 30 MORE lights, and we'll also need some cameras to collect fines too. Isn't density great!!!!

    Stan's vision of Harrison Ave, Cary NC ....

    ...But with lot's more of these....

    My, oh my, you can almost smell the New Jersey crude oil splashing ashore.....


    Some comments that have emerged in NW Arkansas about THEIR growth, see if any of these sound familiar (And there are those who espouse Growth as being "good"...good for whom?)

    Quote Originally Posted by Comments from NW Arkansas about Growth
    Comments About Growth

    Were eating up all of the farm and pasture land that makes NW Arkansas so charming
    Becoming too congested
    Increased cost of land - difficult for people to buy homes
    Increase in crime and drug use
    Have to spend more money to keep up with the growth
    More crime
    Not enough jobs
    Countryside is disappearing
    People aren't as nice as they used to be when it was a smaller place
    Infrastructure is a problem
    Schools need to expand
    Utilities need to expand
    Mexicans coming in and need to speak English and forget about their culture
    Housing is hard to find in Fayetteville
    Traffic is a big problem, doesn't accommodate traffic
    Too many people; nature is disappearing
    Too many people
    More crime
    Roads will not accommodate traffic
    Housing is a problem
    Crime increase
    More drugs
    Roads not being kept up and built fast enough
    Not keeping up with the back roads especially
    Immigrants should speak English
    Too crowded
    City fathers and government induce industries to come into area, but don't provide for growth
    More violence
    Drug use and sales increasing
    More violence
    Need to know history of area
    NW Ark is growing too fast
    Hard to get people to work because have too much employment
    Not making much money
    The uninformed electorate
    Lack of communication between elected officials and residents
    The infrastructure can't keep up with the growth
    Too fast growth in the area
    Too much crime
    Growing too fast roads and schools are not equipped to handle it
    The infrastructure can't handle the growth
    More violence
    Highways and the schools can't keep up
    Adjustment to the cultures that are moving in - Malays in the neighborhood
    Too much crime and violence
    Growth could shock the economy
    Too much growth too quickly
    Maintaining the infrastructure -- the roads and things like that
    Overpopulation and increase in crime
    Too much too fast; getting overcrowded
    Increase in crime
    Too much traffic
    Horrible roads, overcrowded schools
    Get different races in here - diversified populations bring bad element
    Over crowding - traffic
    Pollution
    More crime
    Over burdening the school
    Sure we have more jobs, but what kinds of jobs are they?
    Uncontrolled growth infrastructure suffers
    Housing may become a problem
    Zoning issues
    Too fast, bad decisions by city council
    Too many drugs
    Big city problems concrete jungle, water resources contamination
    Overcrowding, overpopulation
    Traffic
    Overcrowding
    Health problems perhaps from overcrowding
    Communication is a problem with Hispanics
    Lose small town atmosphere
    Congestion with infrastructure
    People we wish weren't here
    Increased theft
    Traffic
    Not enough affordable housing
    More violence
    Too many people and not enough decent housing
    Traffic congestion
    Shopping is difficult in places
    Crime rates increase
    Traffic
    Home prices are too high
    NW Arkansas not ready for growth this fast
    Not enough roads
    Traffic
    Relations between Hispanic and white communities are poor
    The road system is so horrible
    Streets are poor
    Roads not adequate enough to handle the traffic
    Streets need to be widened
    Lack of affordable housing - housing is higher than pay scale
    Congestion
    Crime
    Pollution
    Too much crime
    Crime
    All of the problems of a large community
    Traffic
    Streets not keeping up
    Water and environment
    Traffic
    Not enough money to keep up infrastructure
    Taxes
    Hard to plan -- public official action brought into question
    Will eventually increase crime
    More crime
    More traffic
    Crime comes with people
    Tax increases
    School population is too big
    Traffic
    More poor people
    Taxes
    Infrastructure can't keep up
    Values are changing as people come in
    Increasing crime
    No infrastructure to keep up with growth
    Crime
    Drugs get worse
    Can't keep up with the growth
    Difficult to supply businesses
    Too much change too quickly
    Roads are not good enough
    Increase in crime
    Congested streets and highways
    Lines at restaurants
    Overcrowding in schools
    More crime
    Crime
    Not enough highways
    Roads aren't good enough
    Overcrowded schools
    Crime
    Traffic
    More people means more crime
    More pressure on the kids (peer pressure)
    Our roads aren't ready for the growth
    Population density
    Industry increase
    Uncontrolled right now
    Infrastructure of roadways
    Immigration (increased number of Mexicans coming in)
    Jobs are not available for some people.
    Traffic
    Worried about waste and water for our growing population
    Pollution
    Stop influx of foreign people until they can take care of legal residents
    Roads aren't good enough
    Infrastructure not ready for the growth
    Not enough teachers
    Increase in crime
    Businesses require cheap labor and bring in immigrants
    Environment will get worse - need to have emission laws for exhaust from cars
    Foreigners who have no appreciation of our way of life
    Too many people from all different areas that may be involved in crime
    Traffic congestion
    Traffic
    Infrastructure not handling population
    More crime
    Don't have adequate highways or facilities or law enforcement
    Poor central planning
    Traffic
    Fire safety
    Public safety is problem
    Too much construction
    Public services are bad
    Local people are not receptive to diverse cultures
    Diverse cultures have too much of a voice
    Traffic has increased - not managed well
    The schools are inadequate
    Clashes between different races
    Teachers can't handle a student that speaks Spanish
    Highways can't keep up
    Infrastructure is not prepared to handle it
    Health care is not large enough
    Traffic is terrible
    Too small, not enough room
    Too much traffic
    Too many low paying jobs, not enough of higher paying technical jobs
    Stress on utilities (water, sewer and electricity) can't keep up with growth
    Increase in crime
    Too many people, too much traffic, not as much open space
    Traffic congestion
    Road rage - government need to improve roads, make them wider
    Law enforcement has to grow at the same rate and it isn't happening
    Traffic
    Not enough jobs
    Building too much and getting rid of natural resources
    Difficulties with traffic and increased crime
    Too much traffic, longer lines when attending events
    Traffic
    Too much road work where unnecessary
    Lack of road work where necessary
    Traffic
    Loss of small town charm due to industry and business expands
    Too many people
    Taking up too much space
    City growth with less green space and privacy
    Congestion with traffic
    Growth brings some criminal elements
    Hispanics keep using their own language
    Services need to keep up with influx of people
    Water, sewer, utilities can't keep up
    Roads need to be improved (too much traffic and poor road construction)
    Pollution could get bad
    Not enough places to work
    Wages are too low
    Traffic has increased - roads and streets aren't wide enough
    More crime
    People don't know each other anymore
    Too much pollution
    Too many foreigners are coming in
    Streets are overloaded too much, too much traffic
    Illegal immigrants
    Housing expenses are too high
    Streets and highways need improvement
    Lack of jobs
    More Orientals coming in and less people to speak their language
    Lack of space
    Lack of highways
    Traffic congestion
    Too many drugs and crime
    Too much city not enough country
    Too many foreigners
    With too fast growth, can't take care of basics like transportation
    Congestion
    Over working of facilities such as schools and roads
    Crime
    Filled up landfills
    Not enough roads
    The Mexicans
    Increased crime
    Roads and schools can't keep up with the growth
    Too many foreigners
    Crime
    The area is having trouble keeping up with the rapid growth
    Run out of natural resources
    Overgrowth
    Different ethnic groups coming into the area
    Ethnic groups that are not socially fit move to the area
    Infrastructure is not capable of handling the rapid growth
    Race problems - too many Latin American, Chinese people.
    Growing too fast infrastructure can't keep up with growth
    Overcrowding in schools
    Too much traffic
    Not enough services within city limits
    Crime increase
    A lot of the city streets and utilities have trouble keeping up
    Increased traffic
    Increase in drugs, theft
    Increase in accidents
    Keeping up with housing, schools, and making sure services are available
    Crime has increased-- particularly drug use
    General mischief
    Teenagers don't get enough attention at home
    Overcrowding
    Immigrants should learn the English language
    Road conditions can't keep up with it
    Services don't grow with it
    Property taxes go up
    Rogers is behind on expanding roads
    Public services not able to keep up demand
    Crime increasing
    Shopping centers taking over public lands
    Business parks taking over farm lands
    Increasing metropolitan atmosphere
    We need balance between metropolitan and country life
    Overcrowding
    Land prices going up
    Roads, conditions and number
    Infrastructure, availability of services, not planning for the future
    Letting the short-run view be the only view
    Too much unplanned growth - not enough city planning
    Increase in drug trafficking
    Higher taxes
    Overall higher crime rate
    Crime is increasing, traffic is worsening
    Jobs will be fewer
    Schools are overcrowded
    Land prices too high
    Taxes too high
    Too much traffic
    Can't maintain infrastructure; not enough police protection
    Can't keep up with the schools; crowded classrooms
    Roads are not good enough
    Infrastructure is not in place for growth of subdivisions; n
    Corrupt politicians and good old boy networking is prevalent
    Towns are not equipped (e.g. Water and sewer) for the increase
    Taxes too high
    Using up the countryside and converting it into the city
    There aren't any trees left in our area
    A lot of crime moving in
    Alcohol coming into a dry county
    There is too much growth, too fast
    The streets and schools can't keep up with the growth
    Lack of jobs in NW Arkansas and the cost of living is going up
    There is not enough affordable housing
    Small towns don't know how to deal with traffic, controlling
    Increase of crime
    Immigration of foreigners has increased
    Cost of living has increased too fast
    Quality of life has declined
    Not planning far enough ahead for the growth
    Cost of living extremely high
    Jobs not paying enough to keep up with cost of living
    Crime will get out of hand
    School system unable to handle different cultures
    More violence - people with bad attitudes
    The local county is not keeping up with traffic flow
    Traffic is terrible
    Lots of people are living in substandard housing
    Growing too fast
    Losing small town status
    Traffic
    More Mexicans than whites are taking over jobs in Arkansas
    Increase in crime
    More cars on roads; roads are awful
    Cost of living is increasing and we don't have the pay to keep up
    Traffic congestion
    Growth too fast
    Taking away natural resources such as trees
    Need strong program to protect resources
    More crime that we're unprepared for
    Change demographics -- influx of people not well versed in our culture
    Language barrier difficulty
    Difficult to keep up with proper road conditions
    Stick by the laws you make
    Too many trees being cut down
    Not enough room for people in schools and hospitals
    Traffic is very congested
    More people coming in and not working
    Crime rate higher
    Unemployment is rising
    Violence is increasing
    Get an increase in new people; so there are conflicts between races
    Doesn't see any yet in NW Arkansas
    Being uninformed about general topics
    Traffic
    Increase in crime and violence
    More problems with keeping up with the growth as far as infrastructure
    So many people are moving into this area
    Farms and acres being ripped apart by sprawling businesses
    Traffic is terrible
    The infrastructure is not sufficient to support everyone
    More traffic congestion, crime will rise
    More crime
    More drugs
    The highway system needs to have more lanes and traffic lights
    Traffic controls, streets, and highways are not good enough
    Hispanic people should speak our language
    Difficult to maintain the quality of life
    Crime rate is increasing
    Lack of English speaking citizens affects all aspects of our environment
    New cultures that move to our area don't respect our culture
    Crime is on the increase
    Congestion in traffic
    Too many drugs
    Poor road conditions
    Local city administration needs to have a 3 year, 5 year, 10 year plan
    Need to increase police protection for current residents
    Growing too rapidly
    City planning isn't done efficiently, especially utilities
    The infrastructure is not keeping up with growth
    Neighborhoods all look the same - no variety in the different developments
    People who have been here a long time resent influx of people from other countries
    This area doesn't have the roads for it
    Lose small town atmosphere
    Increase in crime
    Planned growth important
    Public transportation very important
    Controlled growth necessary
    Don't have enough streets that can take care of the traffic
    Road systems aren't good enough
    Losing small town atmosphere
    Main problem is not enough housing assistance
    Generally need more housing (for single mothers making $7.50)
    Too much population means there won't be enough jobs for everybody
    There is not good pay for work done
    Crime
    Schools too small
    Housing a problem
    People don't have friendly attitude
    More crime
    Too much traffic
    Politics handled by people without proper knowledge
    Affects road conditions, people's privacy
    Hispanics and Vietnamese are getting tax breaks that Americans don't get
    The wages are not good here for the unskilled
    Roads
    Overbuilding
    Babyboomers are welfare children and aren't trained to work
    Too much crack and crank
    More crime
    Traffic
    Bring in too much diversity
    Outgrowing our facilities
    Too much traffic, too many cars
    Crime increase
    Not enough police to maintain growth
    More crime
    The drug problem is getting worse
    Drug problem
    Traffic is getting too bad
    The businesses have a hard time getting employees
    Roads are not growing with population
    Too many illegal immigrants
    Crime
    Infrastructure
    Everything is dictated out of Little Rock -- we're not getting our fair share
    Politics are a problem
    Highways are not keeping up with growth
    Too many people that can't speak English and are not trying
    The countryside is disappearing
    Need for proper law enforcement and making sure people obey
    Road and transportation are not sufficient
    There isn't enough hospitals for the new people are
    Schools are overcrowded
    Crowds
    Traffic congestion
    Poor quality of roads
    No mass transit system
    Increased water pollution
    Overcrowded streets
    Too many children in classrooms
    More crime
    We lost a lot of natural landscaping
    Roads are not sufficient
    There are often too many people in one house
    Inability to take care of schools, sewer systems, etc.
    Traffic is terrible
    Businesses can't keep up with the variety of the population
    Too crowded
    Traffic congestion
    Traffic
    Lack of upward mobility in employment for the specially trained
    Traffic and roads and utilities are not sufficient
    Too many people
    Increase in crime and traffic
    Nursing shortage in NW Arkansas
    Roads and streets are not sufficient
    Not enough roads, can't generate enough money fast enough
    Don't have classrooms available, not enough teachers
    Mexican people are moving here and they have the same rights
    Real estate prices
    Kids in schools not getting enough attention
    Street problems
    Not managed at all
    Time for area to recognize controlled growth will insure public safety
    Crime
    Lack of infrastructure
    Lack of services for specific cultural groups coming into area
    Farmland taken over
    Crime
    Crowding in schools
    Higher taxes
    Can't get enough teachers, policemen to keep up with the growth
    Drugs
    Crime
    Mexicans that are coming in
    Crime
    More traffic congestion
    Drugs
    Increase in crime
    Make sure that infrastructure keeps up with the area growth
    The roads and travel need to be taken care of
    Sixth Street needs to be greatly improved
    Schools are too crowded
    People are becoming more prejudiced
    Traffic is horrible; cities are not keeping up with new roads
    Schools can't keep up with building new schools
    Crime
    Traffic
    Overpopulation
    Clashes between different cultures
    Meeting transportation needs
    Highways
    Tree cutting issue in Fayetteville - environmental issues
    Social services need to improve as growth increases
    Can't build roads and utilities fast enough to keep up with growth
    Small town politics don't know what to do with the growth
    Things are out of date before they are off the drawing board
    Planners aren't planning far enough ahead
    Crime
    More crime
    More jobs - means the prices of products will go up to meet demand
    Traffic
    Crime
    Too many Mexicans
    Too big too fast, too many people
    Inadequate roads
    Inadequate zoning
    Crime control
    Infrastructure can't keep up
    Roads don't carry the traffic
    Can't get around in Wal-Mart
    Too many Mexicans coming in - city needs to stop immigration
    Traffic is too much
    Too many immigrants are coming in too quickly
    Can't keep pace with facilities
    No affordable housing
    Outgrowing infrastructure
    Not enough room in schools
    Higher crime rate
    Wal-Mart is major business for jobs & they're saturated
    Crime
    Keeping up with highway and traffic problems
    More crime
    Having adequate passageways through town
    Barrier between Hispanics and non-Hispanics is the major issue
    Water and sewer and roads can't keep up
    Not enough roads to take care of traffic
    Roads
    People being brought into the area that can't speak our language
    More pollution
    More crime
    Not in the spirit of this area, which is more family
    Need more schools
    Traffic
    Crime, this is the main problem
    Growing too fast for schools, kids are loosing out
    If proper planning isn't done, it's a problem
    Don't have the roads, water, and utilities to handle the increased population
    Can't keep up with rapid pace of population growth
    The roads are so bad; they try to build more but it's just awful
    Only address the needs of the rich while middle and lower classes suffer
    Cities a little behind on infrastructure
    Crime increase
    Lack of affordable housing
    Conditions of the streets
    Need more schools
    The outlook of the public is not as wholesome as used to be
    Moved from family oriented attitude to one less so
    Adjusting to the multi-culture situation we're facing
    Traffic
    Too many illegal immigrants
    Violence with the illegal immigrants
    The population can't keep up with growth
    Too many teenagers getting pregnant when they don't have
    Wishy-washy city planners can't keep up with the growth
    Too much too fast
    Scarce resources
    Too fast, it's hard to keep the good old boy system out of the area
    Street planning and traffic control is poor
    Roads are horrible
    More need for law enforcement
    Too much competition for jobs
    Schools aren't anticipating growth
    Health care not anticipating growth
    Could turn into a ghost town if there is a boom then bust
    Not able to meet needs of different people moving in
    Traffic is bad, utilities and schools - language barrier
    Crime rate is increasing
    Traffic is bad, highways aren't prepared
    They haven't kept up with roads and everything
    Traffic, the roads aren't established
    More crime
    Too many people moving in
    Not designed for the growth
    Traffic
    Too much traffic congestion because widening road in front of house
    Can't keep up with it
    Crime
    Illegal aliens cause more crime
    Transportation and roads are really poor
    Too crowded too fast
    Too many immigrants
    Crime rate goes
    Increased crime
    Water and utilities can't keep up
    Need to have more policemen as community grows
    Don't want toll on road for the airport
    Lack of infrastructure, Pea Ridge fighting over water
    Electricity rates are a real problem
    http://www.uark.edu/misc/family/survey/growthprob.htm

  3. #3
    Brent's Avatar
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    Darryl (we now have two Darryls?),

    This is a result of everyone wanting a traffic light at "their" intersection. You can be sure that the SAS folks complained that it took them forever to turn onto Harrison without a light (I'm not blaming them, I expect it did), so a light was installed. Ditto for everyone else turning onto the main thoroughfare from all the places that you cite. Everyone's solution is "we need a traffic light at 'our' intersection!". If the intersection meets DOT criteria and someone (the town or a business, usually) is willing to fund the signal, it goes in.

    The town's world-class fiber optic traffic synchronization system is supposed to help with the light synchronization problem. It's mostly online now; I can't recall if it's fully online yet. However, as I recall, it is manually, not computer, controlled (!). You should direct your complaint to the Town of Cary traffic engineer, Dick.Moore@townofcary.org.

    P.S. The light at I-40 and Aviation Parkway was installed because the governor was in town a couple of years ago and his motorcade had to wait too long for his liking, so he complained, and the DOT put up a traffic light. Really.
    - Brent Miller

    "The job of a citizen is to keep his mouth open" -- Gunter Grass

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    Oh, and you can always ask Mayor McChamber when he's going to deliver on his campaign promise to unclog Cary's crowded streets...
    - Brent Miller

    "The job of a citizen is to keep his mouth open" -- Gunter Grass

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    Default the proliferation of lights onto major throughfares

    hi brent. my major concern is more along with the proliferation of lights onto major throughfares. maynard loop and cary parkway are other examples. how many lights does one cross on this loop before completing one rotation? does anyone know or even care? perhaps this could become a cary trivial question. as density increases so will light density hence throughput is impeded. likewise with increased transit stops. the only way you can maintain throughput once light synch is in effect will be more lanes. however the cary trans planning committee years back did not want to exceed 4 lanes if possible due to pedestrian and cycling mobility. another option are overpasses thast would take cross traffic off of local roads esp peak perios traffic (perhaps Western Wake 540 extension) everything is a tradeoff i suppose. my point is that with increased density, the quality of life of existing residents are affected. pedestrians, cyclists and motorists alike.

  6. #6
    DarylB Guest

    Default

    Stan hasn't volunteered our tax dollars for tunnel projects yet, and I suppose it's only a matter of time before he does. After all, "it's for the children".... so can a "BIG DIG" be far behind?

  7. #7
    Brent's Avatar
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    Default Re: the proliferation of lights onto major throughfares

    Quote Originally Posted by Darryl
    hi brent. my major concern is more along with the proliferation of lights onto major throughfares. maynard loop and cary parkway are other examples. how many lights does one cross on this loop before completing one rotation? does anyone know or even care? perhaps this could become a cary trivial question. as density increases so will light density hence throughput is impeded. likewise with increased transit stops. the only way you can maintain throughput once light synch is in effect will be more lanes. however the cary trans planning committee years back did not want to exceed 4 lanes if possible due to pedestrian and cycling mobility. another option are overpasses thast would take cross traffic off of local roads esp peak perios traffic (perhaps Western Wake 540 extension) everything is a tradeoff i suppose. my point is that with increased density, the quality of life of existing residents are affected. pedestrians, cyclists and motorists alike.
    Darryl,

    Well said. Agreed.

    And the transportation APF was recently amended such that once intersections are built to some pre-established width, they build no more, level of service (and hence, quality of life) be d@mned.

    But the mayor has promised to unclog Cary's crowded streets. Maybe that will be part of "Vision 2020"?
    - Brent Miller

    "The job of a citizen is to keep his mouth open" -- Gunter Grass

  8. #8
    DarylB Guest

    Default Re: the proliferation of lights onto major throughfares

    Quote Originally Posted by Brent
    And the transportation APF was recently amended such that once intersections are built to some pre-established width, they build no more, level of service (and hence, quality of life) be d@mned.

  9. #9
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    Default Don't know for sure....

    Don't know for sure, but the neighborhood rumor mill has a little buzz. Apparently the "big" accident on I-40 on Monday morning was a result of the new traffic light on top of the Harrison Avenue. Most folks in the know will drive straight thru cause "it was" a dedicated lane. Now, everyone is stopping and it is backing up I-40. But then the SAS employees now have a dedicated lane just for them.

    I always thought it would of been better for all if SAS had moved its main entrance up a block or two. Seems like the residents of Cary are victims of poor planning on the part of SAS.

    Wuptdo
    “I’ve seen things you people wouldn’t believe.
    Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion.
    I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhauser gate.
    All those moments, lost in time, like tears in rain.

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