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Thread: Cary Parkway and High House Road

  1. #1
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    Default Cary Parkway and High House Road

    I was unable to attend the meeting yesterday about the intersection of High House and Cary Parkway. Did anyone attend? Is the information available online? I really wanted to see the changes from the original plan that i reviewed a few months ago but my children had other plans.
    Thanks!

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    MattD is offline Verified Five Year Club
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    Default Re: Cary Parkway and High House Road

    Quote Originally Posted by Cindy View Post
    I was unable to attend the meeting yesterday about the intersection of High House and Cary Parkway. Did anyone attend? Is the information available online? I really wanted to see the changes from the original plan that i reviewed a few months ago but my children had other plans.
    Thanks!
    Cindy - I went last night. It is available online at www.townofcary.org (easy to find on front page) and maybe DonH can post the drawings.

    This is a proposed $3 million dollar "fix" to the intersection. My initial reaction to the plan was "what are they thinking". For me, there did not seem to be a compelling reason why this needed to be done. Also, we do not know how the traffic patterns will change with the 540 extension.

    Is this road change a "need" or a "want". Seems to me the $3 MM could be better spent on other road projects.
    Matt Danielson

    "Wisdom trumps fear" - Matthew Danielson

    "Too often we… enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." - John F. Kennedy

  3. #3
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    Thumbs down Re: Cary Parkway and High House Road

    I do not see anything significantly different from the first rendition other than a few retaining walls. Can anyone tell me how they are different? Also what do resident think about this proposal? I am not a fan of going through the same intersection twice to make a one left hand turn.

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    Default Re: Cary Parkway and High House Road

    The quotes in the paper had residents saying things like this was the stupidest plan they had ever seen.
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    David Forvendel

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  5. #5
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    Default Re: Cary Parkway and High House Road

    Have their been an unusual number of problems there? Traffic is very backed up there every evening when I'm headed east on High House through that intersection, but that's rush hour. Is this really going to fix that?

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    Default Re: Cary Parkway and High House Road

    Regarding this intersection please think in terms of the future instead to today. In the future the intersection of Davis Drive and High House will generate and attract much more traffic for this intersection. In the future Park West at Cary Parkway and 54 will generate much more traffic for this intersection. Options are: build an overpass, do nothing, or think of something creative. The council charged the staff to think of something creative. BTW, the do nothing will allow development to occur and not pay for any road improvements since the road would be at its ultimate build out. The plan doesn't mean it will be built in the near future especially in this economy. But it makes sense to have a plan once this intersection becomes abysmal which I believe it will. I hope this information helps.

    Thanks,

    HW

  7. #7
    dhyatt's Avatar
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    Default Re: Cary Parkway and High House Road

    Quote Originally Posted by HW View Post
    Regarding this intersection please think in terms of the future instead to today. In the future the intersection of Davis Drive and High House will generate and attract much more traffic for this intersection. In the future Park West at Cary Parkway and 54 will generate much more traffic for this intersection. Options are: build an overpass, do nothing, or think of something creative. The council charged the staff to think of something creative. BTW, the do nothing will allow development to occur and not pay for any road improvements since the road would be at its ultimate build out. The plan doesn't mean it will be built in the near future especially in this economy. But it makes sense to have a plan once this intersection becomes abysmal which I believe it will. I hope this information helps.

    Thanks,

    HW
    HW,
    I don't doubt the notion that there will be increased traffic in the future but I have to question whether the average driver will perceive making 3 right turns to go left as actually faster than sitting through a couple of light cycles. I'm not sure the specified advantages of the proposed plan outweigh those of simply doing a traditional widening and I'm concerned when I read that the single quadrant solution could be expanded later if needed. I guess that means into a 4-leaf clover or something else along those lines but I'm not really sure.

    In any event, I'm of the opinion that a couple of the bullets for the advantages vs disadvantages for traditional widening need some additional comment

    4.2.2 Advantages

    • Lowest cost alternative.
      • That's is pretty big advantage!

    • Improves operations by increasing the saturated flow rate during each green phase through the additional lanes.
      • Doesn't this mean moves more cars faster???

    • The exclusive right-turn lanes allow vehicles to move out of the stream of traffic to make the lane changes, allow vehicles to bypass short queues in the through lanes, and allow for overlap phasing.
    • Conventional improvements that meets drivers’ expectations.
      • Another big advantage and one that is less likely to annoy drivers.

    • No additional signals, roundabouts, or grade separation required.
    • All traffic remains on public roadways.
      • Seems to me that traffic through a public intersection should remain on public roads.


    4.2.3 Disadvantages

    • Undesirable level of service is projected to remain at the intersection with considerable queuing in the peak directions despite the additional widening.
    • Does not substantially improve signal efficiency.
      • I thought we had a computerized system to handle this...

    • Requires more right-of-way acquisition and widening at the center intersection than most of the other alternatives, however virtually no impact to surrounding intersections.
    • Longer crossing distance for pedestrians (seven lanes to cross).
      • According to staff notes - "The widening alternative will have minimal impact on pedestrian and bicycle activity within the study area." - so this seems to be a bit of a red herring.

    • Expanse of pavement at center intersection worsens the aesthetics.
      • As would just about anything when compared with things as they are.

    Last edited by dhyatt; 12-07-2009 at 10:43 PM. Reason: typo
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    Default Re: Cary Parkway and High House Road

    Greensboro has a similarly designed intersection. It is at Wendover and Church street, and while native navigate the intersection with ease, it is confusing to visitors.
    The one, the only---- KellyC

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  9. #9
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    Default Re: Cary Parkway and High House Road

    The intersection can be bad during rush hour (am and pm). There is no problem during times that there is little traffic, but it the peak traffic time that matters to most of us. And I have seen problems during the middle of the day.

    The worst problem I have seen is a left turn from east bound High House onto Cary Parkway north bound. The traffic waiting for the left turn backs up and blocks one of the two through east bound lanes. Of course, others may see other problems, depending on their driving needs.

    It is a problem now during rush hour. But it will be a much more serious problem later. Morrisville has approved the Park West project (as HW points out) on Cary Parkway to the north. There are the planned developments at Davis and High House. And there is the potential of a very large number of people living further west, many of whom will drive east on High House through this intersection.

    Something needs to be done. However, all of the options, including the proposed option and the "do nothing" option, are bad. One problem with the proposed option is the confusion that would result, and the quick lane changes as people who need to turn left quickly move over to the right lane (east bound High House intending to turn left). The question is which of the options is the least bad.

    The public hearing on Thursday, Dec. 10, should be very interesting.

  10. #10
    MattD is offline Verified Five Year Club
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    Default Re: Cary Parkway and High House Road

    The issue I see most common is traveling from Davis and taking a left (north) onto Cary Parkway. Because the left turn median is not long enough, the cars in the turn lane often spill into the other lane. This causes traffic to stop during a green light.

    Per Staff at the Wed meeting, there is the abiliity to lengthen the left turn lane at all the intersections. It seems adding this length (and maybe another 5-10 seconds of green light) would solve that issue.
    Matt Danielson

    "Wisdom trumps fear" - Matthew Danielson

    "Too often we… enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." - John F. Kennedy

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